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	<title>Comments on: The FairTax Act is Revolutionary</title>
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	<link>http://www.moundalexis.com/tm/2006/06/04/the-fairtax-act-is-revolutionary/</link>
	<description>Rants and musings, without care for substance.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.moundalexis.com/tm/2006/06/04/the-fairtax-act-is-revolutionary/#comment-15674</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moundalexis.com/_tm/?p=136#comment-15674</guid>
		<description>Response to "Look behind the hype and distortions and half truths."
1.  "you would think everyone takes home their whole paycheck"
STRAW MAN!
Check page 74-75 of FairTax book (paperback edition, 2006) which spells out items to be repealed: individual income tax, alternative minimum tax, corporate and business income taxes, Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes (along with all other payroll taxes), the self-employment tax, estate tax, and gift taxes.  In order to come to the "whole paycheck" conclusion, you would have to not have read the source materials and have someone else misrepresent what the materials say.  HR 25 bill would repeal the appropriate sections (A, B, and C) of the IRS code of 1986 while making arrangements.  Federal taxes would not be collected on INCOME which means the IRS (or whatever tax collection agency present at that time) would not touch that income at withholding or on the infamous tax day April 15th.  You would keep the previously withheld/taxed income until you spend it.
The "readjustment downwards" of wages would be the negotiation between the employee and the employer with no part from the federal government.

2. "all employees all over the country would need to cut their gross pay 30%"
Your math (assuming I'm interpreting it correctly), assumes that right now no federal taxes are paid between the purchase of good or service and when those purchase dollars end up in someone's paycheck.  Corporate income taxes (which would be repealed by HR25) and other tax related expenses are currently part of the price of the good and services that you purchase.  Arguably, all items you buy are already marked up 20-25% on account of tax expenditures.  This "high" sales tax replaces the "high" income, corporate, FICA, and SS taxes that are already already being paid.  Your outrage for the "high" sales tax should be all the more reason to support this idea because it'll bring the actual amount being paid to Uncle Sam out into the open.

3.  “Fairtax completely untaxes the poor” and “Fairtax makes sure no American ever pays a dime in taxes on the bare essentials of life”
Check "SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE" of HR 25.  It look like you're trying to split hairs.  Purchases up to the poverty line would be "FairTax free".  Below poverty line would be considered poor, and poverty line income would be considered enough for the bare essentials.  The prebate is an implementation device to offset the amount paid in sales tax so that poverty line purchases are not taxed.

4. "There is no provision in there for any relief"
The FairTax is neither a tax decrease or increase.  The leukemia and surgeries examples forget about the corporate income taxes and other embedded taxes in the total cost of treatments.  The amount paid in sales tax would not exceed the sum of the existing personal income taxes and the embedded taxes.

5. "You didnt notice things like that when reading his book"
You're right, but it is only because your conclusions are not based on all the details available.  There are many articles out there admonishing us to not implement the FairTax idea, but all of them (that I've read at least) contain distortions, misrepresentations, or omissions of key details whether by accident or on purpose.  Give the FairTax idea and House bill another look.  Examine the current taxing situation and see how ridiculously bloated it is.  The FairTax folks have put a lot of work in research into the idea and know much more than you think they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Response to &#8220;Look behind the hype and distortions and half truths.&#8221;<br />
1.  &#8220;you would think everyone takes home their whole paycheck&#8221;<br />
STRAW MAN!<br />
Check page 74-75 of FairTax book (paperback edition, 2006) which spells out items to be repealed: individual income tax, alternative minimum tax, corporate and business income taxes, Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes (along with all other payroll taxes), the self-employment tax, estate tax, and gift taxes.  In order to come to the &#8220;whole paycheck&#8221; conclusion, you would have to not have read the source materials and have someone else misrepresent what the materials say.  <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 bill would repeal the appropriate sections (A, B, and C) of the IRS code of 1986 while making arrangements.  Federal taxes would not be collected on INCOME which means the IRS (or whatever tax collection agency present at that time) would not touch that income at withholding or on the infamous tax day April 15th.  You would keep the previously withheld/taxed income until you spend it.<br />
The &#8220;readjustment downwards&#8221; of wages would be the negotiation between the employee and the employer with no part from the federal government.</p>
<p>2. &#8220;all employees all over the country would need to cut their gross pay 30%&#8221;<br />
Your math (assuming I&#8217;m interpreting it correctly), assumes that right now no federal taxes are paid between the purchase of good or service and when those purchase dollars end up in someone&#8217;s paycheck.  Corporate income taxes (which would be repealed by HR25) and other tax related expenses are currently part of the price of the good and services that you purchase.  Arguably, all items you buy are already marked up 20-25% on account of tax expenditures.  This &#8220;high&#8221; sales tax replaces the &#8220;high&#8221; income, corporate, FICA, and SS taxes that are already already being paid.  Your outrage for the &#8220;high&#8221; sales tax should be all the more reason to support this idea because it&#8217;ll bring the actual amount being paid to Uncle Sam out into the open.</p>
<p>3.  “Fairtax completely untaxes the poor” and “Fairtax makes sure no American ever pays a dime in taxes on the bare essentials of life”<br />
Check &#8220;SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE&#8221; of <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25.  It look like you&#8217;re trying to split hairs.  Purchases up to the poverty line would be &#8220;FairTax free&#8221;.  Below poverty line would be considered poor, and poverty line income would be considered enough for the bare essentials.  The prebate is an implementation device to offset the amount paid in sales tax so that poverty line purchases are not taxed.</p>
<p>4. &#8220;There is no provision in there for any relief&#8221;<br />
The FairTax is neither a tax decrease or increase.  The leukemia and surgeries examples forget about the corporate income taxes and other embedded taxes in the total cost of treatments.  The amount paid in sales tax would not exceed the sum of the existing personal income taxes and the embedded taxes.</p>
<p>5. &#8220;You didnt notice things like that when reading his book&#8221;<br />
You&#8217;re right, but it is only because your conclusions are not based on all the details available.  There are many articles out there admonishing us to not implement the FairTax idea, but all of them (that I&#8217;ve read at least) contain distortions, misrepresentations, or omissions of key details whether by accident or on purpose.  Give the FairTax idea and House bill another look.  Examine the current taxing situation and see how ridiculously bloated it is.  The FairTax folks have put a lot of work in research into the idea and know much more than you think they do.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.moundalexis.com/tm/2006/06/04/the-fairtax-act-is-revolutionary/#comment-13270</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.moundalexis.com/_tm/?p=136#comment-13270</guid>
		<description>No visible downside to Fairtax? Well look behind the Curtain.

 Look behind the hype and distortions and half truths.  

  First of all, if you only read Fairtax book, you have only hype and horsefeathers --  you read nothing of substance.  In fact, Fairtax and HR 25 are two entirely different things.  HR 25 is the proposed legislation -- Fairtax is the hype and promises. 

  For example, in the Book, if you went by that, you would think everyone takes home their whole paycheck, that you would keep the money you used to pay into income taxes.  

   Well the book said that. But HR 25 says no such thing. IN fact, HR 25 people said they never even IMPLIED such a thing. But Boortz wrote it in his book, and virtually every Fairtax fan still thinks thats how it works.    Boortz later wrote a "clarification" which he said your gross wages would be "readjusted downwards" . Where I come from, that means cut.

 Yes, for Fairtax  math to work, all employees all over the country would need to cut their gross pay 30%.  That money is then given to the employer -- kept by the employer, and used to lower the prices of all goods.  

  Now, thats not the picture you got from Fairtax.  And Boortz is counting on that. Once Fairtax fans get sold on this " magic wand" they tend to be mesmerized by it, even when later they found out many of the basic Fairtax premises were absurd.

    And HR 25 says NOTHING about your wages being "readjusted".  There is nothing like that in there.  This whole wage readjustment, all the math and predictions -- thats all in the hype.  Thats all the speculatoin and promises.   
  
   HR 25 is simply a national sales tax. A very high sales tax -- in fact, the highest on earth.   Thats what we should call this tax -- the highest sales tax on earth. Becuase thats what it is.  Fairtax claims all kinds of things, but none of those things are even mentioned in the bill. 

      So what you have are people who read the book, and think that reflects what the bill is. NO. Its not. 

     For example Fairtax -- Boortz -- will tell you "Fairtax completely untaxes the poor"  and he will say "Fairtax makes sure no American ever pays a dime in taxes on the bare essentials of life"

     Does HR25 have anything to say about this?  There is NOTHING in there about untaxing ANYONE.   IN fact, the first line or two of the act says THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS or exemptions. None.
   
    THe poor pay it, the rich, the sick, the blind, whoever. IF a poor person gets cancer and has medical bills, he has to pay taxes on the surgery, chemo, rehab, everything, just like anyone else. (yes fairtax is on all medical cost -- no exceptions)

      Oh yes, there is a prebate.  Huckabee said the prebate is what makes Fairtax work -- without it, Fairtax would be impossible.   Well the prebate is 200 a month per person - no extra if you get sick, -- to use on your sales taxes.   But your sales tax, just the sales tax, that the parents of a child with leukemia would have to pay, could be 200,000 dollars.    What if the parents only make 30?

        DOesnt matter to HR 25.  There  is no provision in there for any relief, nothing. 
         
        So you say you didnt see any downside to Fairtax from Boortz boo?  Well, probably cause Boortz hid. He didnt tell you that cancer victims have to pay the worlds highest tax, did  he? So you didnt know. 
           Oh, Neal covered how your "doctor visits" will have to "carry" the fairtax.  SO like 10 dollars sales tax on your office visit.  But he didn't explain that mean if your spouse is in a car accident, and needs surgeries, your taxes could be more than your yearly income.  

       You didnt notice things like that when reading his book, YOu thought it was thorough, with no downside.  

          Fairtax has far more flaws than I have mentioned here.  But the more you see of HR25, and think for yourself, the more you will realize Fairtax is just all hype.  Fairtax isnt the plan. HR25 is the plan.   Fairtax is the BS  hype and mis information.

       YOu are welcome to my bog -- fairtax absurdity @ blogspot.com to find out more. I may be wrong -- correct me if so. OR offer you thoughts, Thank you</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No visible downside to Fairtax? Well look behind the Curtain.</p>
<p> Look behind the hype and distortions and half truths.  </p>
<p>  First of all, if you only read Fairtax book, you have only hype and horsefeathers &#8212;  you read nothing of substance.  In fact, Fairtax and <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 are two entirely different things.  <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 is the proposed legislation &#8212; Fairtax is the hype and promises. </p>
<p>  For example, in the Book, if you went by that, you would think everyone takes home their whole paycheck, that you would keep the money you used to pay into income taxes.  </p>
<p>   Well the book said that. But <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 says no such thing. IN fact, <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 people said they never even IMPLIED such a thing. But Boortz wrote it in his book, and virtually every Fairtax fan still thinks thats how it works.    Boortz later wrote a &#8220;clarification&#8221; which he said your gross wages would be &#8220;readjusted downwards&#8221; . Where I come from, that means cut.</p>
<p> Yes, for Fairtax  math to work, all employees all over the country would need to cut their gross pay 30%.  That money is then given to the employer &#8212; kept by the employer, and used to lower the prices of all goods.  </p>
<p>  Now, thats not the picture you got from Fairtax.  And Boortz is counting on that. Once Fairtax fans get sold on this &#8221; magic wand&#8221; they tend to be mesmerized by it, even when later they found out many of the basic Fairtax premises were absurd.</p>
<p>    And <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 says NOTHING about your wages being &#8220;readjusted&#8221;.  There is nothing like that in there.  This whole wage readjustment, all the math and predictions &#8212; thats all in the hype.  Thats all the speculatoin and promises.   </p>
<p>   <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25 is simply a national sales tax. A very high sales tax &#8212; in fact, the highest on earth.   Thats what we should call this tax &#8212; the highest sales tax on earth. Becuase thats what it is.  Fairtax claims all kinds of things, but none of those things are even mentioned in the bill. </p>
<p>      So what you have are people who read the book, and think that reflects what the bill is. NO. Its not. </p>
<p>     For example Fairtax &#8212; Boortz &#8212; will tell you &#8220;Fairtax completely untaxes the poor&#8221;  and he will say &#8220;Fairtax makes sure no American ever pays a dime in taxes on the bare essentials of life&#8221;</p>
<p>     Does HR25 have anything to say about this?  There is NOTHING in there about untaxing ANYONE.   IN fact, the first line or two of the act says THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS or exemptions. None.</p>
<p>    THe poor pay it, the rich, the sick, the blind, whoever. IF a poor person gets cancer and has medical bills, he has to pay taxes on the surgery, chemo, rehab, everything, just like anyone else. (yes fairtax is on all medical cost &#8212; no exceptions)</p>
<p>      Oh yes, there is a prebate.  Huckabee said the prebate is what makes Fairtax work &#8212; without it, Fairtax would be impossible.   Well the prebate is 200 a month per person - no extra if you get sick, &#8212; to use on your sales taxes.   But your sales tax, just the sales tax, that the parents of a child with leukemia would have to pay, could be 200,000 dollars.    What if the parents only make 30?</p>
<p>        DOesnt matter to <abbr class="uttInitialism" title="human resources">HR</abbr> 25.  There  is no provision in there for any relief, nothing. </p>
<p>        So you say you didnt see any downside to Fairtax from Boortz boo?  Well, probably cause Boortz hid. He didnt tell you that cancer victims have to pay the worlds highest tax, did  he? So you didnt know.<br />
           Oh, Neal covered how your &#8220;doctor visits&#8221; will have to &#8220;carry&#8221; the fairtax.  SO like 10 dollars sales tax on your office visit.  But he didn&#8217;t explain that mean if your spouse is in a car accident, and needs surgeries, your taxes could be more than your yearly income.  </p>
<p>       You didnt notice things like that when reading his book, YOu thought it was thorough, with no downside.  </p>
<p>          Fairtax has far more flaws than I have mentioned here.  But the more you see of HR25, and think for yourself, the more you will realize Fairtax is just all hype.  Fairtax isnt the plan. HR25 is the plan.   Fairtax is the BS  hype and mis information.</p>
<p>       YOu are welcome to my bog &#8212; fairtax absurdity @ blogspot.com to find out more. I may be wrong &#8212; correct me if so. OR offer you thoughts, Thank you</p>
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