American Community Survey Makes Me Uncomfortable
Jul 9th, 2007 by Alex
The American Community Survey (ACS) makes me very uncomfortable. It is a nationwide survey that is being forced upon the unlucky that happen to live in one of homes selected at random. I was one of those unlucky people and took immediate issue with some of the questions being asked and the manner in which the collection is being handled by U.S. Census Bureau representatives. It has me so worked up that I have difficulty phrasing things (unlike John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute), but here goes.
The ACS is time consuming.
The U.S. Census Bureau says that it should take between 10-15 minutes to complete the survey. Like most government paperwork, I think this is absurd. Do you know where all your financial records are? Know what you paid in utilities last year? What about your mortgage payments? Everyone has those figures handy for just the occassion.
The ACS asks for personal data that should be private.
ACS attempts to collect everything from annual income to the number of bathrooms in the home. More scary are the lifestyle questions. How you get to work? Do you carpool? What is the address of your primary work location? How long your commute is in miles? About what time to you leave for work and what time do you return?
I understand that you could use this data to determine traffic patterns, but knowing how many people live in the house and what time they all leave for work? It all sounds like the type of pretexting that a thief would love to be able to get away with.
All of the individual questions aren’t bad by themselves, but when they are compiled together they would form a very specific picture. I don’t care if its for statistical purposes for the good of the country, it is a picture I don’t share with my close friends and family, let alone perfect strangers.
The ACS data is being collected in sketchy ways.
Since the ACS is a government program, there’s lots of information about how the data is collected. I’ll elaborate.
You get a letter in the mail saying to expect a survey in the mail in the next few days. The letter is laced with “this survey is important” language and to complete it as soon as you can.
A few days later you get the questionaire itself.
After a week or two you get a letter saying that response is mandatory and that you’ll be fined and/or imprisoned if you don’t reply to the questionnaire. Another questionnaire is mailed as well. Not nearly as nice now, is it?
At this point the recipients are being bullied into complying. Most surveys are optional. Even when the census is done the only questions that you are legally obligated to answer are for determining representation in the Senate and Congress; you’re required to provide the number of adults and children that reside in your household. ACS is not being touted as optional; “fill this out or pay” is what comes across. The ACS is very clear that up to a $100 can be assessed for not aswering and up to a $500 fine can be assessed for answering fraudulently. Now if it were $100 I’d gladly pay it and move on, but some documentation suggests that the fines are per question. That’s comes out to a lot more money which I don’t have.
There’s inconsistencies here though. An ACS Q&A (PDF) document states that “the police cannot see [my answers to the survey] and no other court of law can see it,” so who’s going to be issuing a fine or doing the imprisoning? Isn’t that the Department of Justice? If the U.S. Census Bureau isn’t allowed access to my tax returns, why should I be obligated to provide them with my annual income? I think they squeezed the authority for mandating a response out of an obscure section of law concerning the census and the the current ACS borders on unreasonable search. It feels that way.
It gets worse.
Most people get several weeks worth of phone calls to their home. Census Bureau representatives attempting to gather the information over the phone. I haven’t been pestered with this. I have Caller ID and don’t answer unknown numbers.
It gets worse.
Representatives are sent to your home to attempt to interview you in person. The creepy man at the door was a U.S. Census Bureau representative. They knock on the door. They ring the bell. If you don’t answer they sit and wait to see if you’re going to peek through the blinds or leave. After a while they give up for the day, only to return the following day. I didn’t answer the door either time, but supposedly this treatment lasts for several weeks. It is harrassment, no doubt about it.
ACS data is at risk.
The U.S. Census Bureau says that the answers aren’t linked to you. Then why does the questionnaire ask for your name? Wouldn’t “Resident A” be more appropriate for an anonymous survey? Each survey has a unique identification code that relates the survey to the address. This is a must for geographical analysis, but the link between the code and the address has to be kept somewhere… and my address can easily yield my name.
I’d feel better if I believed that the data would be protected. Dealing with network security a lot of the day, I have a learned cynicism for those implementing such protections.
Back in March of 2007 the U.S. Census Bureau “inadvertently posted personal information from 302 households on a public Internet site multiple times over a five-month period.” Accidental and a crime, yes… but it still happened.
The rep that attempted to contact me at home left a business card. He’s from a field office in Philadelphia, but his home number is listed as one local to this area. A residential exchange that I recognize from my childhood. I’d bet a paycheck that he doesn’t commute, which means that the laptop that he’s storing all of this data on is probably kept in his home. Is the home alarmed? Does he keep the laptop in a secure place like a safe? Does he use a VPN client when transmitting the data to the Department of Commerce?
In the past six years, the U.S. Census Bureau admitted to losing over 1,100 laptops. Considering they used over 20,000 in that period and being conservative, that’s 1 out of 20. Only 107 of those were fully encrypted.
What of the servers protecting the data at rest. Assuming that it gets to the servers in the first place, what protections exist there to prevent dataloss or unauthorized individuals from getting at it?
None of this helps my fears.
What to do about ACS
I know that I’m not the only one opposed to this thing. Because the survey is so limited in its distribution, word hasn’t gotten out. But there are a lot of people who take issue with the ACS.
For now, I’m refusing to answer the questionnaire. If the U.S. Census Bureau representative — a Mr. Clifford E. Cohen of Millersville, Maryland — catches me at home, I’ll tell him there are two adults living here and that he can refer to them as Residents A and B. I’ll also tell him that it is a waste of his time, my time, and the taxpayers’ money for him to continue attempting to collect from me. If it doesn’t catch me at home, that’s not my problem.
And now, straight from my dreams…
If I had more balls I’d take all of the letters and pamphlets and questionnaires and drive them over to Mr. Cohen’s house. His personal residence — that he purchased back in the early 80’s for a decent sum — easily found from the home phone number on his business card and confirmed by public tax records and satellite imagery of the green car in the driveway. I’d knock on the door and ring the bell until someone answered and explain to him that I don’t appreciate being bothered and that despite his efforts in the past and those in the future that I’m not going to participate beyond what is required of me by federal law, that is the number of residents in my household and whether they’re adults or children. Hopefully he’d be wondering how I ended up on his doorstep and I’d tell him that all his information was gleaned from public records or that which he nonchalantly left tucked in my front door (perhaps thinking that a phone number registered in his wife’s name would provide some privacy), and perhaps then he’d begin to understand why I wouldn’t want to compromise my personal habits for the sake of some stupid survey questionnaire for fear that they would someday become public knowledge due to incompetance of their representatives or network engineers. Of course, when he drops things off he’s only doing his job. When I drop the same things off, it’s a crime. Harrassment and/or trespassing. But he hasn’t been involved with any judicial cases either.
Spreading the word…
I have mixed feelings about publishing this. If the thing is legit and funding continues for it, I’m guilty of not responding. I won’t wax patriotic themes here, but I’m having difficulties with the fact that I’ve been put into the position by my country. That I feel obligated to ignore the law and abstain from responding. The right to privacy is a freedom that few have; to be stripped of it to complete a statistical questionaire under threat of fine and imprisonment feels wrong and very un-American.
Of all the commentary that I’ve read, I haven’t heard of anyone being fined for not participating. Have you? Is the U.S. Census Bureau blowing smoke up our asses? Have you fallen victim to the American Community Survey and the U.S. Census Bureau’s absurd — and borderline illegal if not obnoxious and Gestapo-like — collection methods? Did you fill out the survey?
Screw comment whoring, this is important.
Updates
05/14/08 - There have been quite a few visitors lately, referred here both by other web sites and by Google. So here’s an update. I haven’t heard anything from the Census Bureau about my failure to participate in the American Community Survey. I have received no further correspondence. I have not been contacted. I have not been fined. The threats of fines and jail time appear to be just that… idle threats.
This sounds scary as hell. I suppose with the Patriot Act, it could be suggested that you are suspicious or “a person of interest” for refusing to answer the questions. With this country’s “you’re with us or against us” attitude, they might mark you as a friend of the terrorists.
(I’m being serious.)
And then they can haul you off. Just to make an example of you because hopefully (!!!!) there are other people like you who are brave enough to stand up to this survey. “They” are already using the PA as an excuse to nail people they could otherwise not touch.
Maybe the fear factory thing is working on me, but the PA scares the shit out of me. I don’t think you have to “dream” up the “balls” to stand up to this. It sounds like you’re already doing it to me.
The most important question about all of it is: what in the sweet jesusly fuck is a childroom?
And why did you spend so much time crank-calling people from there?
Jerk.
I’ll agree that it’s a disturbing “survey” at best (and something else entirely at worse, why I wrote the piece you reference above). I also have to say that I ultimately broke down and answered it.
Mostly because I felt sorry for the lady who kept coming, day after day - and she really wasn’t that bad about it (as others have reported. So one day, even though she wasn’t able to answer detailed questions (though I was able to find most of the answers myself), I decided that I would humor her.
My answers were much like those you propose: The residents of our house were “Dad”, “Mom”, “Child 1″, “Child 2″ and so on. I may have even mentioned the dogs. Many of the other questions I simply refused to answer (a little-known fact is apparently that you can simply do so, and they have a checkbox for this on their form).
The lady filled in the form on her laptop, went her merry way, and I haven’t heard from them again. This was probably a year ago at this point, and I haven’t heard a thing. No one asking for more information, no fines, nothing.
From what I could find in my research, you may be able to be fined by not answering, and perhaps even by answering falsely - but it appears that you may be able to give sufficiently generic and non-revealing answers that you don’t actually provide any information. Your own mileage may vary.
I think you’re reading too much into this.
Researchers like me need data from people like you. In this day and age the 10 year census isn’t cutting it, so the ACS is used. I agree that it shouldn’t be compulsory. There should always be an opportunity to opt out. Opting out can tell researchers a LOT survey design, survey implementation, survey content, etc. This is a major flaw in how this is handled. INAL, but the language of the law behind the survey seems like it would be hard to convict you for leaving some of the information blank. Finally, most of this information is used for extremely boring research and information. Your commute time plus your income could lead to research about how the more people earn the longer the commute is. Or something as equally as boring.
But the data can be very helpful as well. It’s great for finding the locations for new post offices, hospitals, fire stations, police stations, etc.
There are lots of tried and true methods of keeping data separate from respondent information after the data is collected. Typically respondent information is destroyed immediately after the data is recorded. Sometimes it’s held for a few years, but completely unlinked to the data, so that you don’t get selected again. It’s a long, boring process to explain, but researchers take it very seriously.
I can understand your concerns about privacy being compromised through lost laptops and posting info to websites. It’s inexcusable. But it’s only a very small percentage of people that this happens to. The data collectors have probably been sent through background checks because of the regulations regarding the data collection.
And remember that this guy is working the front lines. He’s not the one who wrote the law. He’s not the one sitting in a cool office picking names out of a hat. He’s just doing his job, trying to collect the data. To be honest, he probably doesn’t care two shits about you. He only wants to get the data so his boss doesn’t bust his ass for coming up one survey short.
You’d be better to show up on the stoop of the senators that sponsored the bill.
I’d also be interested in seeing the letters you’ve been sent, as well as the survey; if you wouldn’t mind scanning, anonymizing, and then posting them.
Johnny: I doubt that I’d be considered a person of interest. DHS could do a quick check of my records and rule me out. Definitely a fan of privacy and perhaps a bit paranoid but not that interesting otherwise.
MJ (with the same initials as that infamously *ahem* child molestor): Uh, I was young? Didn’t know enough to prank people that lived farther away?
Chad: The laptop-assisted version lets you not answer a question? In all of my reading I hadn’t seen that. Maybe I’ll just let the poor bastard find me at home this weekend. The paper form definitely does not give that option.
ACW: Your statistical knowledge leaves me with more questions, damnit… although questions that I’m far more comfortable discussing. What makes me so much different from my next door neighbor? His answers are just as good for statistical purposes as mine, so why not have him fill it out (if he doesn’t have a problem with it)? The problem isn’t with the proposed use of the information, it’s what could happen if the data were misplaced. Speaking of protecting respondents, if its truly tied to the address and not to me then why are the named of the residents important? If the front line guy didn’t like going door to door, he shouldn’t go door to door. I bet you the Senators don’t fill these things out, random or not… or fill out which of their children have had emotional issues in the past year. The survey is done, letters are coming.
Being a government employee, I can tell you that you a) the administrative capacity to actually fine people was probably the first thing cut from the budget b) if it doesn’t specifically mention Homeland Security or the FBI, etc, then this information is very unlikely to go to them and c) “no response” or “refuse to answer” is definitely an option when the technician enters the form into the system.
Think of it this way: even among the folks who *want* to answer every question, there are going to be a high volume of questions left unanswered due to sheer negligence. It is ridiculous how hard it is to get people to fill out a form correctly. If the computer system that records the data is even basically functional, then it’s going to need to have a “no answer” option for almost everything.
Your best option is to probably fill out only what you’re comfortable with–even if it’s only a few questions. If they do fine people, it’s only likely to be those who submit nothing at all (how could they fine those who do it earnestly and leave things out by accident?). And besides, this info probably will help put your tax dollars to work.
All in all, I think the survey sounds kinda neat. I hadn’t heard of it until I saw your post.
For those interested, I’ve compiled information regarding the ACS and the Census Bureau at:
http://checkpointusa.org/Census/Census.htm
Towards the end of the page in the documents section, a copy of the 2005 ACS survey can be found in pdf format.
It should be noted that after decades of Census Bureau denials, ‘Scientific American’ reported in March of this year that the Bureau was responsible for handing over the names and addresses of thousands of individual Japanese-Americans to the Secret Service during WWII. The personally identifiable information turned over to the SS was culled from responses to previous decennial census efforts. The individuals identified by the Census Bureau were rounded up by the federal government, based solely on their race/ethnicity, and forced into internment camps for the duration of the war.
In 2003, the Census Bureau cooperated with a Homeland Security request for information regarding the location of Arab-Americans around the country. In 2004, the Census Bureau turned over personally identifiable information from previous Census responses to NASA. NASA in turn conducted research with this information into the feasibility of assigning terrorist threat levels to air passengers flying within the United States.
With regards to the ACS in particular, a GAO report indicates that the Census Bureau generates the ACS questions based upon close consultation with other federal agencies and works with these same agencies to conduct follow-up questionaires based upon initial responses to the ACS. Additionally, the GAO discovered that the Census Bureau is sharing ACS responses directly with other government agencies while the Census Bureau has conveniently failed to inform survey takers of this fact so that when asked, they can deny the allegation.
I could go on but I’m sure you get the idea….
Terry
Thanks for the posting and all of the discussion. The ACS arrived at my house a few weeks ago.
It’s very long and very detailed, and completing it will definitely take more than the 38 minutes estimated in the brochure that came with it.
I know this because I started answering the ACS the week I received it, but the personal nature of the questions pretty much stopped me in my tracks. I needed time to mull this over, figure out what I need to do. I’m not one who seeks to break laws, and I hate getting into trouble, but I’m also a believer in privacy, and sorry, but I don’t trust my government.
So– ambivalently, I guess I’ll be answering with non-personal, non-sensitive information, and only for myself to the extent that I’m comfortable. My two housemates are categorically opposed to answering the survey, so I’ll not be including info about them except Housemate 1 and Housemate 2. Besides, they’re both here just temporarily, so what kind of representative household are we, anyway?
I’ll post again if someone knocks on my door… which they may have to do. Sigh.
Jon: That’s the odd thing. No one — except those who have received it — has heard about it. The percentage of people they poll annually is small enough that there isn’t much of a public outcry. I think that if more people knew about it, it wouldn’t continue. I’m torn between doing the minimal — and having a representative come by to “clarify” the unanswered questions — or attempt to make a statement by refusing outright.
Terry: There is a lot of information on your site. More than I can digest at the moment, really. The corporate sharing/leaking is frightening as well, as is the release of privileged information that people aren’t allowed to ask you.
Katy: If you don’t answer anything, there’s a 1 in 9 chance that they’ll send someone (from program literature, somewhere). If you’re lucky, they won’t. They appear to stop by on the weekends only, leaving a business card in the door each time.
“If I had more balls …”
This is actually what you really, really should do. Denial ain’t a river in Egypt;…it exists in this people as neccesarry to their daily function at their tasks as the air pointlessly consume. They MUST be confronted, or nothing will change. I earnestly and URGENTLY argue that this is exactly what you should do. Don’t dream it - DO IT!!!
I didn’t answer it. I told the census bureau rep at the door why in no uncertain terms. I also told him I’d be more than happy to pay the $100 fine, it’s a small price to pay for my privacy. As would $1,000. Or $10,000. Or prison.
To date, no one has shown up asking for a check.
The government has no right to any of this information. Period. If you’re not telling them to pound sand, you’re part of the problem.
Unfortunately most Americans are wimps or dummies when it comes to govt’s incremental grab for our liberty.
I second 11 Daves comments !
btw it’s been at least a year since I sent mine in only complying with the Constitution.
I can’t find any record of anyone being prosecuted or fined for failure to reply to the ACS.
It would take a Federal Court to strike this thing down, and the Census Bureau is apparently not going to take the risk of giving citizens “standing” to dispute it on constitutional grounds by serving papers on them. That is the only way a citizen or group of citizens could bring a constitutionality issue. The Census has to act first (and do something more than just threaten) and that gives citizens “standing” to bring up issues the Census does not really want to have reviewed by a Federal Judge.
The Census can hold off a Federal court challenge as long as they want by refraining from actually prosecuting someone.
Dave: I think that’s what I’m going to do. Stand my ground and provide the number of adult residents. If he’s interested in knowing why I don’t want to answer the rest, I’ll tell him.
John: You don’t need to be a wimp to be intimidated by this thing. The thought of “United States vs. John Q. Taxpayer” probably flashes through everyone’s mind when they think about whether or not to comply.
Carl: I’ve found no comment or blog entry from anyone saying that they’ve been fined. People would be outraged if they had and someone would have spoken up. If it came to more than threats, I might consider getting some representation and running it up the flag pole for people to hear about. Loudly.
This thing is a joke! I just got mine in the mail today. You’re going to fine me for not filling out this piece of garbage you call a “Community Survey”? This is nothing more than a blatant violation of our Constitution and I will not fill this out. Next thing you know they are making it mandatory for all newborns to get the RFID chip. I don’t normally buy into these conspiracy theories but the current state of our government is bringing these feelings to the surface with their behavior.
I am happy to provide all information and for the intended purposes,
BUT I just spent 10 minutes on the phone with ‘the census’ trying to tell me this is anonymous ‘protected’ info.
She was continually contradicting herself, or-somehow- not expecting me to know what the word anonymous means.
It contains my complete address and every page has a scan tag full of what? I know too much to turn back to my old trusting self.
Welcome to the census bureau’s taxpayer funded, government approved extortion ring created to invade your privacy and violate your 4th amendment rights. This 90 day program begins with the survey, reminder card and 2nd survey (30 days), followed by the phone harrassment (where telemarketers call to get you to call the census) and ending with a personal visit ( a number of visits from a field rep). Only 1/3 of the harrassed will get a visit. The best way to deal with them is to ignore everything - don’t answer the survey, the phone or the door. They will go away and the fine will not be imposed. This program works by keeping the victims isolated and without a court challenge. See the latest article on ACS posted on World Net Daily.
We’d like to know where we can file a FORMAL COMPLAINT about the godawful harassment by these self-elected Vigilantes & Bounty-hunters who have been harassing us for at least two months.
Our situation is more dire than many of those described here and we feel that somebody with some CLOUT should investigate the invasive, abusive tactics of these people who work for CB.
My spouse was hospitalized in Intensive Care, near death, and for past few weeks his SURVIVAL has been the ONLY thing on our mind… And these EVIL CBers have relentlessly harassed us all throughout the past month, even though it was December, Christmas season! Spouse now has finally been released from hosp., but has been diagnosed with Stage IV Cancer, and we are still afraid to answer phone, even though we need to answer many doctor calls and are wracked with fear & worry over this terrible disease and his chemo treatment which could begin any time.
Instead of being able to have ANY freedom from worries and ANY focus on the sacred holidays, we have had to be harassed by those EVIL CBers who call MANY times a day and recently when we came home from doctor appointment, in dark, we saw someone sitting on neighbor’s stoop with a clipboard. We RAN into our home and were afraid to turn on the lights.
Is this America or NAZI GERMANY???
These people should be SUED for harassment and criminal injuries to the peace of mind of innocent citizens.
WE HATE them and we will NEVER submit to their demands for our private info!!!
SHAME and ETERNAL DAMNATION to the gestapos behind all this Amerian Community Survey crap!!!
P.S. One of their calls came in just as I got out of shower, and I thought it was the surgeon who was about to do emergency heart surgery on spouse, so I stoood there dripping wet and answered phone, unable to read the Caller ID, only to hear some jerk identifying themselves as CB! I simply HUNG UP: To hell with them!
Can you imagine having these kind of personal horrors beset you and your loved ones, and simultaneously having to deal with such harassing BULLSH*T from the Census Bureau like this?
This kind of BRUTAL HARASSMENT needs to be exposed and stopped!!!!
P.P.S. These invasive ****ers have called half a dozen times this evening alone; we’ve lost count of how many times they’ve called since they started their harassment–probably more than 100 calls. Who the hell do they think they ARE??? How much longer do we have to put up with this torment, while trying to deal with personal crises? WHERE will this stop?
Hey! I just discovered your post and it’s wonderful! We’ve received our wonderful invitation to participate in this survey, and I’ve already written about our refusal to comply on my blog: http://rationaljenn.blogspot.com/2007/12/american-community-survey.html
This is absurd and I’m so encouraged to discover so many other people who are taking the same stand I am.
I have recieved two forms so far. I am a permanent resident waiting for my citizenship interview on Febuary 6, do you think my refusing to answer this survey form will affect my becoming a US citizen? English is my second language, i find all this very confusing and too much stuff to fill.
Jamal,
Nothing additional will happen to you if you don’t fill in the form. The census bureau can’t report you to to anyother agency. You might be contacted by phone or have a field rep come to your residence. The easiest way to handle the calls and visits is to ignore them. Everything will be over by march 27th, so just sit tight and go to your citizenship interview and everything will be OK.
I received the American Community Interrogation last week. The Census Bureau sent me my first reminder card a few days ago. Needless to say, this pernicious survey will not be completed. I know the harrasment-via-mail is just beginning but I must admit, I’m rather looking forward to the phone and field rep cycles.
I have a lot for questions for the Census Bureau,,,why have they lost more than 400 laptops (with personal data on survey respondents) since 2003? For years they maintained they never provided “micro data” (i.e. names and addresses) that identified individual Japanese-American citizens for the internment roundup during WW II. An article in last year’s Scientific American cites sources that they did.
Or, why, when they were beta testing new software last year, did personal data on survey respondents accidentally end up posted on their web site?
If my government wants to play games (and huff and puff about fines they have no intention of pursuing), I say game on. And I have more games than Milton Bradley. :-O
I discarded the Survey and put this letter in the return envelope. The survey itself was barcoded for address/identity but not the envelope. I have already received my ‘reminder card’ but not yet the second copy of the survey. If anyone comes by in person I will ask for identification, copy it with my cell phone, and demand that they leave and not come back. If they refuse I will call the sheriff and have them officially trespassed. They have no official standing to remain after being told directly to leave. Even the police have to have a warrant or they must leave when you tell them. I have spent the last week’s spare time searching for anyone who has ever been fined. Not found yet. Also thanks to Rational Jenn for your blog. Lazarus.
Director
US Census Bureau
PO Box 5240
Jeffersonville, IN 47199-5240
I have received your American Community Survey and I must say that it appears at first to be a classic example of Phishing for information to be used in Identity Theft. The only thing missing is a Nigerian postmark. But I understand that this is an actual request from our government
I am a responsible citizen and willing to help the Census Bureau with the information it needs to make informed decisions. However, your survey is quite intrusive into specific information that should not be needed. And I cannot risk providing. My obligations are to protect my family first, and to be a good citizen second.
You need to know how many persons are living in a household. I understand that. But you require the first name, last name, and middle initial of each person living there. This cannot be needed for census information.
You need to know the age of each person, I understand that. But you require the actual birth dates of each person. This cannot be needed for census information.
You need to know if each person is employed, I understand that. But you require that we provide the name and address of our employers. This cannot be needed for census information.
You need to know certain information about commuting habits, I understand. But you ask what time each person leaves the house. This cannot be needed for census information. This would be great information for thieves to have.
You also ask for a great deal of financial information. We provide this info each year to the IRS.
By cross-referencing this data you can create an almost complete identity profile. The only thing missing is the Social Security Number. But you probably ask for that in the follow up phone calls because you also require a phone number to contact.
Other unscrupulous persons, not associated with the Survey could just call asking for this information to complete the survey. It is a given that they will. Because people, especially the old, trust the good will of the government. This survey is putting many people at risk.
Please don’t try to assure me how safe this information is in your hands. I am not impressed with the security skills of the public sector. Every act that creates something like the American Community Survey also contains provisions by which you are absolved of all responsibility for failure to protect this information. I have to provide the info, you don’t have to protect it.
Only a very naive person would fill out this survey with all the risk associated with the need to protect personal security.
Please don’t tell me that I will be fined for failure to participate. I doubt that you can really prosecute a person for an attempt to protect themselves. My reasons for withholding the information are valid. I am not convinced that your need for specific data is.
After I print this I will be forwarding it to both my congress man/woman and my state representative.
Yours skeptically,
Well, you already know.
That is a brilliant letter! Love the part about how criminals would really love to know what time we leave for work in the morning!
By the way–it’s been over two months–we have received a back up copy of the survey in the mail, but no phone calls or visits. Weird, huh?
Last night the CBer tried to muscle her way into our house as my husband was accepting a pizza delivery. She literally had her hand on the door and was attempting to walk in. When hubby finally succeeding in shutting the door on her she screamed at us and said that we are “absurd”.
We have her name and residence and even the place her social club meets. It is sooooo tempting to show up there and humiliate her by telling everyone how she acted. Or maybe we could camp out outside her front door so she knows how it feels.
Hubby is intent on calling the police the next time she shows up. This was the 5th time.
Freedom and Privacy are all we have and are all that keep us from tyranny. We’ll stand our ground against this horrible woman who is a goon of big brother.
Mad Mama: Keep it up! I can’t believe that the CB worker actually tried to enter your home….how appalling.
We had our first visit last week and I wrote on my blog about how glad I am that we made a stand. Just knowing that there are more people like us is inspiring to me!
I received my first ACS at the end of December, 2007. Since then, I’ve been visiting a discussion website regarding resistance strategies to the ACS. The link is on Survivalarts.com called “None of Your Business”. It’s been very informative and posters have recounted their own experiences with the ACS data gathering process, and different ways to avoid/defeat it. Since yesterday (3/25/08), that website is no loner accessible. Does anyone know whether the webmaster shut it down, or did the government and/or Census Bureau have anything to do with it?
D-Rider,
I noticed the same thing about Russell’s site and was wondering what is going on. The entire site is down. Hopefully, he’s working on the site . I would hate to have the site down because of the CB or hackers. I did notice that some sites have linked to his which have nothing to do with the ACS.
I guess we should give the webmaster the benefit of the doubt. After all, there are about 5 years worth of postings on that site. Maybe he’s installing a larger hard drive. Besides, I don’t want to start sounding like Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. I’ll try it again in a few days.
I just emailed Russell to see what’s going on.
We just got or privacy-invading copy of this most obnoxious AC survey.
Haven’t decided whether to send it in. What happened to Uncle Sam? Have those d-mn dems turned communist already that they have to ask such personal questions, that have nothing to do with furthering community based services, from a few households
It’s smoke in your face.
I’ve been tagged. My wife and I had a looooong discussion about this and thanks to the Feds, my wife is now scared to death. We agreed to abstain from the survey, but she is very stressed out over it. Can I sue for mental anguish? Thanks to 17 Cathy for referencing the WorldNetDaily article. We now have it from the horse’s mouth that the fines and jail time are nothing but words to scare people. It’s still creepy though. Not sure about how to handle the visits or phone calls. I don’t have caller ID, but our number is unlisted. In the case of a visit, I think it might be fun to turn a garden hose on somebody who wouldn’t get the hint that they weren’t getting anything from me. I’ve got one by the front door - I might keep it handy.
This “survey” is just under the radar at the moment - a few good news stories by some national outlets might give it enough traction to stick and get the attention of some folks who could put a stop to it. In the meantime, I’m telling everyone I know about it and supplying links to the useful comment threads and articles.
DC,
With an unlisted phone, you may not get any calls and only one third of those receiving the ACS get home visits. If they call and you happen to answer the phone you can tell them that “the information they seek is not authorized by the owner” or you can tell them that your not interested in surveys and hang up. As for the home visits - just don’t answer the door. If you get caught outside simply tell them that you are not answering the questions. The harassment will last about 90 days. As for the newpapers - the CB has a rapid response team which keeps unfavorable stories out of the press. Check out Terry’s site for more info on the ACS (#7 has the link posted).
I too, have an unlisted number, and have received no phone calls. I guess that I was in the lucky two-thirds who don’t receive visits as my 3 month period has come & gone. Cathy, as you probably know, Survivalarts website is still down. Optimistcally however, the message receive is ‘Site Temporarily Unavailable’, which means that the server is still online. Maybe just an upgrade is on tap.
I’m glad to see you have a place for people to talk about the ACS. Any word on Russell’s old site? (Survival Arts) I actually posted today (”JustSayNo— The American Community Survey”) and there’s a link back to here. Seems like every time the CB sends out an ACS mailing there’s activity on the web— it’s like the rolling black plague creeping through USPS. It IS stressful— no one wants to break the law. I never filled it out (2006) and received my share of additional mailings, phone calls, and home visits. It took about 4 months for them to finally give up. Kudos to all who who take a stand and JustSayNo!
My apologies to those of you here who are also posting to my own blog about the ACS: I’ve moved to a new city, am back in college, and just went heads-down for a few months. The thread “‘None of Your Business!’: the American Community Survey” is back in business.
Keep up the good fight, folks!
http://www.survivalarts.com/archives/001095.html
I received this survey, began to answer it and felt sick to my stomach. After researching it, I decided to ignore it. We received a second one with a vaguely threatening letter (claiming that they sent the first one to us 3 weeks previously, when it had been closer to 8 weeks). I do not know if they ever called, because I only answer numbers that I know.
While we were away over the weekend, a flyer and a business card was left in our door jamb with a note to call and set up an appointment. They also questioned our landlord (it is a two family building) regarding our names, etc. Our landlord refused to say anything to them, but told us that they had our (unlisted) phone number, because they wanted him to confirm it. 5 days later our landlord received a letter saying that if they refused to cooperate with the census bureau (including granting them access to our residence!) they could be fined up to $500. That was last week.
This past evening, while I was in the bathroom, someone began knocking on our back door incessantly, and increasingly loudly. When I finally got to the door no one was there, but then someone was knocking on the front door. When I went to the front door, it was the woman from the census who had left th business card. I told her that two adult citizens live here and that I would not give her any other information.
She tried to engage me in a discussion, and wanted me to detail which questions I would answer and why I would not answer others. I told her that I found the questions to be intrusive, that I did not trust the government to keep the information secure, nor did I trust what use it would be put to. She tried to convince me that if I did not fill out the survey no one in power would know what questions bothered me and the problems that I have with the survey. I told her that I could call my congressman (which I did-we’ll see where that goes) She persisted in attempting to fill out the survey putting down no name, female, etc. I refused to answer any of the questions.
She tried to guilt me into complying by saying that she would have to drive back again for another “visit” and this was her second and that it took her more than an hour & then her supervisor would have to come out. I told her that I hoped she had an adequate mileage reimbursement.
While she is doing all this, she is showing me her laptop screen, in some sort of attempt to instill confidence or elicit compliance. So as she clicks through the screen, I see”__________ is the name on the mail in the trash” I said to her “You went through my trash?!” She said that she hadn’t, that she just looked down and there it was in plain sight. I asked her why in the world she would look in my trash, and she said that she needed to get my name so that she could call me. She said this as if it were the most logical thing in the world. I was and am completely appalled. I told her “I suggest that you leave now,” in the tone that I use for misbehaving children and shut the door in her face.
I immediately went to check my trash, and as I suspected, there was nothing in plain sight with a name on it. This is not trash that was sitting out on the curb. It was my recycling outside my back door, on the porch.
She left and hung out down the end of the road until my boyfriend came in and then she followed him back and attempted to question him. She ‘fessed right up to looking at the mail. She told him that I was scary and that I frightened her and that she had never had anyone refuse to answer before.
He refused to give his name, but I am sure that she got his first name off his uniform shirt (we know that she doesn’t miss a trick). She tried to convince him that the information was necessary. He admitted that he worked last week. When she asked him if it was for pay, he told her “what do you think?” in a sarcastic tone of voice. When she asked how much money made he told her that it was none of her business and wouldn’t answer further. (I suspect that he may answered a few more things, but does not want to admit to me that he caved.) She then tried to get him to give answers pertaining to me, which he would not.
i am furious about the tactics they use. I cannot believe that she went through my trash. To me this seems like a warrantless search.
Tricia,
You’re almost done. The field reps have been given extensive training to manipulate citizens into giving out the answers to the survey questions. I had 2 field reps come to my residence and I ignored them both. The CB wants to know why poeple won’t answer the questions so that new methods can be developed to counter the public resistance. Just by talking to you, she gained the 5 data points she needed to call your survey answered. Your pesky field rep has till the end of the month for visits.
Earlier in the week I received the dreaded “lucky you” ACS letter. Last night I received the survey. I have to say I did my part and “responded”. Although probably not as completely as they would have liked. I told them how many lived at the address and the current date. I then wrote on the first page “I answered all questions I felt comfortable with. This consitutes my official response.”
They can’t say I didn’t respond! I’m sure the phone calls will ensue.
I’ll watch my trash… that’s just scary! Maybe I’ll plant someone else’s trash in my can to throw them off.
I know this sounds like I’m being difficult, but I do feel we need to protect our privacy at a higher level than in the past. CB stolen laptops and the March 2007 website issues tell me they do not protect the information adequately. In addition, I believe the Constitution protects my rights. I really don’t like being bullied. “You are required by law…” I think paying the fine (which it doesn’t seem will actually happen) is better than risking my family’s personal info.
From the perspective of hurting my community by not answering the entire survey (i.e. hospitals, schools, firehouses), I’m not sure I understand how this helps. My neighbor is the local fire chief. They just built a new firehouse. I recently ask if he used the Census Data to select a location, obtain funding, or help in any manner. No was the answer.
Further down my block lives the president of one of our hospitals. I’ll have to ask him the same question.
I probably am hurting some organization, but selfishly, protecting my privacy is a higher priority to me. This survey seems very, very similar to the 2000 census long form survey I was blessed with several years ago. So, it doesn’t appear they are implementing any suggestions I made from that one.
- finished ranting. Let the calls and visits begin.
Lucky me (biting sarcasm implied). I get to join you great Americans by having received my second survey with the thinly veiled threat letter claiming that I am required by law to respond to the ACS. And that if they don’t receive my questionnaire soon, they may “pay me a visit.” What is this, the Gestapo of Nazi Germany?
Nothing doing! The detailed personal and health information that this government agency is attempting to extort from me under threat of punishment is outrageous. What’s happening to our country??? I contacted one of my Congressman last week. Not one aid is his office had heard of this thing. After they did some research on it, all they told me was that, yes, I am required to respond.
But thanks to this website and all you conscientious fellow Americans, I too will resist this unconstitutional violation. I would just like to know how we can stop these people entirely. Is this the slow road to tyranny?
JH,
You’re not hurting your community. The community stuff is mostly propaganda to convine responders that the answers are important, when the answers are important to marketers, who want to sell us stuff we could find for ourselves or don’t want. ACS is used to keep social and behavioral scientists employed. The CB uses the info from the ACS to troll for people eligible for gov programs and for other surveys. When I refused to respond to the ACS, I received a postal survey and a few phone calls for an educational survey.
We received the census survey. Since we’re 70-ish and have been married 50 years, we’ve participated in a number of censuses.
However, this was different. It looked and felt different. Since we didn’t want to be fined or hassled, we answered the stuff you would answer in just about everything: name, age, birthdate, amount of education, nationality, etc.
We declined to answer questions of a financial nature. We sent a cover letter and explained that the IRS had all that information, and they were welcome to request it. We aren’t trying to hide anything.
We did make a note of not ever having met the person who mailed this survey, nor have we ever spoken to him on the phone. We added the request: Since we are living in an age where it’s dangerous to even give out your identity to a stranger on the phone, the person conducting the survey should satisfy certain requirements to the satisfaction of the person taking the survey.
The person taking the survey must be certain that they are not in danger of having their identity stolen if asked questions of a financial nature. Nor should the survey-taker be at risk of their information being used in a fraudulent manner. No one can afford to accept a complete stranger’s mail as being legitimate, not when we have all the sophisticated software that can appear to be almost anything. It’s too risky.
The cover letter of this survey was copied on cheap, thin paper and gave no appearance of being an official document. It did have a document number that appeared legitimate, and a website was reference that had dot-gov. But any hacker can do that.
So, my opinion is, it pays to be careful. If someone can come to visit me who can provide identification that meets my satisfaction, I don’t mind talking to them. But this survey doesn’t meet my standards.
Well — We got all the letters and mailings and the phone calls have started. Like most I consider this an invasion of my privacy at best. My wife and I are not in full agreement over this but we will not be responding. We are both legally blind and unwelcom visitors at our doors are perceived as potential and unresolvable threats as we could not verify an ID etc…
bob
So I found the card in the door today…saying I can reach her until “11pm”. This is the first visit…She came on a Tuesday…somewhere between 1:30-4:00. How many visits can I expect?
I’m expecting packages in the mail too…Man, I don’t want her to find out what my name is, or answer the door thinking she’s the delivery man. I live in an apartment complex, and I can’t see who is at the door, because there’s no peep hole. Maybe there won’t be any visits since gas is $4.00 a gallon out here…
We got one of these at our vacation home, where nobody lives most of the year. So I answered 0 with a comment about it being recreational property and sent it back. I received the follow up phone call at my primary residence to verify that nobody lives there and then pumping me for info on how many rooms, etc. I said I didn’t feel comfortable answering that and that all I was required by law to answer was how many people lived there. Much arguing ensued and I hung up after saying I’d have to talk to my lawyer first. Now I’ve received the second phone call on my machine requesting that I call them back and here is the case number.. Ugh. Much hate….
My 3rd month is over. Net results are as follows:
I put the protest letter in the first envelope as described above. I did not respond to the second mailings.
I did not ignore the phone when the caller ID said Census Bureau. I answered on one Saturday and was polite to the young man and had a discussion about the invasion of privacy and refused to participate. Following Saturday a call from a much sterner woman and I was not so polite and I started to complain about the threat of a fine and she REALLY backed off fast and said that she never brought it up, which she hadn’t, I did. She said she would mark me as “refused”.
That was the last I ever heard from anybody with the ACS. I had my camera phone updated, had it on all the time. Read these web pages every day. I was ready, going to video the field encounter. But it never came. Nobody to dance with.
A clear refusal is the way to deal with these people. They know they have no power other than intimidation. They won’t even try that if you are clear, and firm, up front. At least that was my experience. Your results may vary.
These “census” people are major jerks! I never even received one of these Anti-American Interrogation Questionaires in the mail but yet I still have these fascist Nazis calling me every hour of the day. It’s been this way for about the past month and a half. I don’t pick up to numbers I don’t recognize, and these people are no exception. On occasion I’ll pick up and then hang up right after before they even have a chance to speak, but otherwise I just let it go straight to voicemail. And I would also like to add that they keep calling my cell phone. Will someone please tell me how they got my personal cell phone that I don’t have linked to any of my past or present addresses? I mean, seriously, this is ridiculous! I actually wonder if they have the wrong number because, like I said, I never even received one of these surveys. I have done an extensive amount of research about this questionaire, though, and am trying to get local media attention through the ACLU about this criminal activity the census is trying to pull off. But one thing’s for sure, I will never submit to the possibility of identity theft, which means refusing to participate with this survey, even if it is mandatory…not now, not ever! This government cannot be trusted. That’s all I’ve got to say. Hope this wasn’t too incoherent for you all. I am extremely tired, but just thought I needed to get my thoughts heard.
It may be just a fluke that you are being harrassed. Usually, the CB will call for about 30 days starting at the beginning of the month and increasing the number of calls per week as the month progresses. The calls should end by the end of the month. If they are after you, you hav a i/3 chance of being contacted by a field rep during the next 30 days. There are private companies paid to find telephone numbers. Sometimes these companies can find cell phone #s. How do you get your mail?
The CB has to deviate from the 90 day plan when a residence has no land line or when mail is not delivered directly to the residence because of a roural route, PO box, etc. The field rep will need to validate that the residence exists and is occupied. Sometimes the CB has gotten cell phone numbers usually because someone, like a neighbor or landlord, who knows the ACS recipient gave out the info to the field rep.
FYI -
U.S. Constitution - Amendment 4
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
There’s no way to prove that anyone actually receives the survey. It arrives through plain ol’ USPS, no receipt, no delivery signature, nothing.
Therefore… there’s no way to indict, fine, convict, or imprison anyone for failing to respond.
Just to let everyone know. It takes 2 refusal’s for them to stop calling you, but if you just imm hangup they’ll keep calling as it takes 6 imm hangups for them to stop calling. The reasoning being that 3 imm hang up’s equal a refusal. The reason for that is it could be just a child or something of that nature hanging up.
My husband and I just moved into our residence about a month ago. I just had a CB lady show up at my door. I’ve never received a letter or a phone call. I’m supposed to call her this week and take the survey via phone. I’m not going to, but do you think she will keep coming back to my house? I’m surprised that my 80 pound pit bull barking her head off at the lady didn’t scare her away. Bummer.
Yes she’ll keep coming back until it’s completed
I too am now experiencing this headache. I echo all of the privacy and Constitutional concerns of prior posters, as well as the technology-related security concerns (I am in IT). My wife filled out most of the survey but I refused to complete it and send it in. We have now received two forms and a packet left at the door by a local rep. Even worse, I realized from the business card that we know the field rep from our old neighborhood and I don’t want to get into this with her, and I certainly don’t want her to know how much we make, what time we leave for work, etc, so I don’t want an interview in person or on the phone.
This is such an incredible violation that it just makes me sick, and I certainly don’t trust the governments motives with recent wiretapping, Patriot Act, Homeland Security foibles, etc.
I decided to call the 800 number on the form, and today I spoke with a supervisor in Seattle. She recommended that I complete as much information as I am willing to provide on the survey, and that “it is [my] right” not to enter my name on the form. She advised me not to try calling in a refusal, because the computer system the case handlers use will just keep generating followup requests based on the softwares unfulfilled “need” to answer every question.
I recorded the conversation with the consent of the supervisor, and have posted it to Youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFGhW5pOP0
So, I’ve decided to fill out the survey anonymously with the basic, required census info and send it in.
CAguy
I’m pissed…..this is the second time in three years that I’ve received the ACS. How is it that I could be chosen twice for a survey that supposedly is only sent to 2% of households? The first time I blew it off completely: the followup up notes, the phone calls, and the creepy guy showing up at my doorstep. Fortunately, we both work so the later was easy to avoid, though he showed up one weekend that we were out. Personally, I really don’t feel like telling that much information about myself. I did find this link from the GAO that seems to imply that their is the legal authority, though I’ve never heard of anyone being prosecuted: http://www.gao.gov/decisions/other/289852.htm
uggg
Had a visit today. I have a very clear “Posted No Trespassing” sign. I did not answer the door because I could see the woman though my open front window. I asked to please respect my sign and was told that she is from the federal government and not trespassing. When she had said that is was about the ACS I knew enough that I wasn’t going to answer any questions. She then said that I could do it anonymously. Huh? Then went on to say that it was mandatory. Again, huh? If I could do this anonymously, then how could they ascertain that my “mandate” was complied with? I told her to send another one in the mail, to which she replied “we’re passed that point already”. I then asked her to clarify that. Would she be sending someone to arrest me? I did not let her answer, and as she was pulling her card out to leave for me I told her to keep it that we don’t need unnecessary government spending. I politely asked her to remover herself from my property and walked away from the window. She stood by her car for few seconds then left.
We’ll see if a clear refusal will work, but I have a feeling that someone will return.
[...] It’s surreal. The blog-o-sphere is full of outrage, makes for some interesting reading. This blog is particularly rational and informative. I’ve never been accused of being too rational, so [...]
In the summer of 2008 the USDA released there Agricultural Survey, On the left hand side it said, under penalty of law etc. Under the Constitution no where does it state the Ag Survey. I received 2 surveys, 2 reminder cards and one phone call. The only survey that has been granted by congress is the people survey.
The phone call they asked do you own livestock, I said yes and then they said you have to fill it out. I said no I do not, show me the law. They then said that owning livestock and making 1,000 a year on livestock considers me a farm. Well I don’t sell 1,000 so I am not considered a Farm.
After the phone call I never heard from them. Many people received this survey and refused to answer. It was extremely intrusive. The only reason I was on the list was due to the State Vet.
I was added to the NASS, National Agricultural Statistics Service
They fines are the same as what all of you stated. They use this for fear mongering. Read this blog on the survey by Mary Zanoini http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=7539&pst=698366
I only wanted to share my story as you see the USDA intends to located all livestock holdings via the National Animal Identification System. All owners will be required to have a Government owned premises id number on our private property, all livestock to be identified and all animal movement off your property tracked all in the name of disease. All livestock includes any backyard listed species. Horses, Llamas poultry, etc.
People who live in the cities need to be aware as this program is much more then meets the eyes. Support your local farmer.
Know your rights is all I can say. Look up American Community Survey, Compass. http://nord.twu.net/acl/compass.html
On second thoughts, I think I will answer it with my
Name; Rank and Serial # (or Social Sec.) that is
enough for the IRS, Police, Military, Homeland Security, If it were a legitimate census I would be glad to supply number of occupants
living here. But anything else is my business as an American and a Homeowner.
JHC
In reference to this earlier post:
Were you aware that a federal law that goes into effect this year requires DNA testing of each and every newborn infant in the US? From this month on, the federal government will have a unique DNA identification record of everyone born in the country. They already have most prisoners, people who have done military service and many immigrants. How do you think that this information could be used (abused?)
15Aaron
This thing is a joke! I just got mine in the mail today. You’re going to fine me for not filling out this piece of garbage you call a “Community Survey”? This is nothing more than a blatant violation of our Constitution and I will not fill this out. Next thing you know they are making it mandatory for all newborns to get the RFID chip. I don’t normally buy into these conspiracy theories but the current state of our government is bringing these feelings to the surface with their behavior.
MY REFUSAL TO COMPLY!
January 29, 2009
I received the American Community Survey about a month ago. This compulsory 28 page document published and administered by the U.S. Census Bureau clearly demonstrates the need to ask the question ” Who is out-of-control in our government?”. Perhaps, more importantly, “Who is in control, outside of our government?” I decided, almost immediately, not to comply. A little investigation confirmed my suspicion. Namely, there are countless others of you out there who share a common concern about this interrogative survey as well as the motives of our government. I say ” our government” because I still keep close to my heart the memory of a government and an America I supported while serving in the Vietnam war. A time when the enemy was perceived as a threat against our great nation and not from within. I received a second ACS just last week with a letter that hinted vague threats. This appears to follow the pattern described by most of you who have already experienced the ordeal. My course of action is best described by the following conviction.
It is the duty of every U.S. Citizen to practice civil disobedience when the government exceeds its authority.
The U.S. Constitution in Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 states; “The actual enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years.” This gives the government authority to conduct a census every ten years by enumeration. Any demand placed upon a U.S. Citizen beyond that provision is unconstitutional. A paper history of the U.S. Census records throughout the life of our nation plainly exhibits the simple process of enumeration as the only method permitted to obtain a “head count” and only at an interval of ten years. The ACS far exceeds the intent of the U.S. Constitution for the purpose of congressional redistricting and allocation. The questions are extremely intrusive into our private lives and a blatant attempt to extract vital personal information that cannot be obtained by any other means. Also, it is my view that this campaign endorsed by our legislative body, in part or whole, is being used as a test ground to determine how far the American people will bend and stay pliable under the control of a central government. Summarizing my intent;
1) I will not comply with the demands of a government that has exceeded its authority.
2) I will not pay any fine.
3) I am, bold words but spoken true to my nature, willing to be imprisoned but not subjugated.
In doing so, I will practice civil disobedience for the first time in my life. Given the safeguards written into the U.S. Constitution by our founding fathers and the love of country they entrusted with us, I can do no other.
Mark Gordon
markbgordon@yahoo.com
PostScript - I would be more than pleased to provide a PDF copy of the American Community Survey to anyone who is unfamiliar with its contents and intent.
I tossed the first survey. I kept the second as a reminder of what happens when the uneducated rise to power. I have survived the 90 day harassment cycle. Although the CB threatened a fine between $100 and $5,000, I refused to participate in this socialist program.
I will not help the government to spend its porkulus dollars “more efficiently.”
Did the threat of a $5,000 fine make me nervous? Only a little. First of all, the CB can’t issue a fine. They’d have to go to court, and get a judge to determine the fine (between $100 - 5,000). The minute the CB brings this to a judge, I have standing in federal court to question the constitutionality of the ACS.
Check these out:
http://www.lawandfreedom.com/site/constitutional/Census.pdf
Morales v Evans.
This writ spells out the unconstitutional nature of the 2000 Census long form. The same arguments apply to the ACS as well. Further, the ACS is a monthly survey not used for congressional apportionment.
http://www.givemeliberty.org/RTPLawsuit/CourtFilings/2ndCirc-Ruling-Jan-05.pdf
This is the decision in Schulz v IRS. Although this is a tax case, it still applies to the CB. Schulz went to court to contest an IRS summons. The Judge found that because the IRS had not commenced a proceeding to enforce the summonses, Schulz was under no threat of consequence for refusal to comply and, until such time as the IRS chose to pursue compulsion in a United States district court, no case or controversy existed.
The judge further found that if the IRS did attempt to compel Schulz to produce testimony and documents named in the summonses, the enforcement procedure described would provide Schulz with adequate opportunity to contest the requests.
In a nutshell - the CB, until it files a motion in court, has no authority to compel anyone to fill out the survey.
These “surveys” & other forms of intimidation from the Feds HAVE TO STOP! To put the Census, which has always been in the Dept. of Commerce, in the White House is an outrage–people should be up in arms. Furthermore, this B.S. about digitalizing our medical records and putting them into a huge federally run database is even more invasive than the Census! It seems that the Feds are like VAMPIRES when it comes to stripping us of all our privacy and self-sovereignty. We have only one choice if we want to remain self-determined individuals: REFUSE to cooperate. Give them NOTHING. The ONLY ones benefiting from this cr*p are the POLITICOS and the DATAMINERS. The rest of us are being vampirized and we simply must RESIST.
Americans, it is time to GROW A SPINE, and REFUSE to be intimidated by these Gestapoische tactics. Give them NOTHING!
To the poster who had the CB push to get into apartment:
If this happens, can we physically push back? After all, if they are physically aggressive, can we be?
If we hate someone in our lives, can we tell the CB to go bother that person? Is THAT legal?
If they bang on the door, can we not open the door, but bang back?
Can we swear at them?
How does this nazi government even know if the mailman delivered it? After all, the mail men/women in NYC are dolts, stupid, leave mailboxes open, dump piles of mail in lobbies - yeah, more rancid government employees.
Remember this: they told the Jews in Nazi Germany they were in the camps ‘to work.” Now they tell us, “it’s for our own good.”
I wrote to Holder and Pelosi and asked THEM when and how often THEY bathe.
I’ve received my second survey. I’m printing out a copy of the constitution and sending it back in the envelope.
Thank you so much for making this forum for discussion. I was sweating it there for awhile. No more!
Down with Big Brother! Big Brother is doubleplus ungood!
dan: I just sent my (second one as well) back with name and questions 2,3 answers - like it says on the how to guide that comes with it, the only two things required. The survey (” “) seems very sketchy and irrelevant and *nothing* I can think of researchwise would help if people’s names were tacked onto the surveys (so why is it? :/)
I love how there are census workers and related posting comments here who are remaining Anonymous - funny that! That’s more than people who get these surveys get to do!
I received two long surveys, a couple of letters, and a couple of visits from the lovely census worker. The first visit was a week ago Sunday and I answered the door thinking it was a realtor. She introduced herself and asked if I was the homeowner. Not wanting to have to answer questions that were none of her business, I lied and said they were not home. She gave me her card and asked me to have homeowner call for interview. She came back twice yesturday. The first time she waited at door for a while because I would not answer., and I think she had heard me in the house talking on the phone. She waited quite a while at the door. Then she went to her car which was parked in front of my house, and sat there for about 10 minutes and finallly left. She came back a half hour later. This time she parked across the street and came to my door. I did not answer. She waited a while in her car and finally left. Her card was left by my door. I don’t know what I will do if she returns. I just may answer the door and ask her to leave, never to come back. I feel like I’m being harrassed and watched, sort of like being stalked. I may send in one of the surveys, only to answer the number of people in the home. They aren’t suppose to ask any other questions. I don’t like this intrution to my privacy one bit, and they had better make some changes.
Diane,
Just sit tight. It won’t matter if you return the survey now, you have passed that point once the phone calls or home visits begin. The visits will end at the end of the month. You are being stalked and harrassed. It will get better.
I recieved my ACS in January and have been dodging phone calls and visits from the field representative for the last 2 months. I have even called the Atlanta Office and kindly asked them to please quit harrassing me. I told them that I felt the questions were unconstitutional and other than the number of people in my household I would not answer their questions. They said they would let the field representative know, but since then I have recieved another letter telling me how importantant my response is and that a representative will be contacting me again in a few days. This is unbelievable!! The Census bureau has spent the last 2 months trying to force me to answer questions that I feel are personal. Please tell your neighbors, write articles in your local newspapers, contact the census bureau with complaints and contact your representatives in congress. 250,000 households a month are receiving this survey and over $150,000,000 is being spent on it. Please let your voices be heard so that we can change the way the Census Bureau is profiling the United States’ citizens.
So….2 survey mailings, 15 follow-up phone calls (first one mistakenly answered where I refused to comply), 2 field rep visits, then 2 days ago a mailing asking me for a good time to call me! Arggghhh, when will this stop? This has been going on since last week in December. Cathy, are you sure I’m getting close to the finish line? You have told others 90 days and home free - that’ll be next week for me…but I’m not so sure Big Brother is going to go away that easily.
I received the ACS in January. I procrastinated over filling it out for about three weeks, due to the nature of the questions. I, too, feel an “anonymous” survey does not need names, does not need to know the name of my employer, nor when my house will be left unguarded by the presence of my family - or for that matter if my teen aged son is alone in the house. Last week a CB field agent - who left a “while you were out” kind of message sheet with my son - not a card, dropped by. She parked in the driveway, and my son said she tried to walk into the house. I was at work.
I filled in the form the first time, sent it in at the end of January, and about a week later, got a second form - which I thought crossed in the mail. CB lady said it was not received - so, who has all my personal information???
The form is crude, in plain english. It makes one adult responsible for submitting personal information about everyone in the household. In my original, which I no longer have, the instruction book or cover said that all answers must be truthful and can be verified with tax and other government records. Does this sound right?
I’ve been told it is too late to mail it in. I arranged to fill out the second one and leave it between my outside storm door and the inside door for her to pick up. But it bothers me. It bothers me that someone who left me a message that this survey is important to “our community” will now have personal access to my private information, such as salary. The second go around, I chose not to answer anything for Person #2 except his name and age. I should have left off the name. I did, however fill in the majority of questions asked of me. (Person1) I stalled at the year of my marriage. This is one of those tidbits of information that is hard to find about any particular person, and I don’t want that revealed. I don’t post my marriage license on the wall, nor the wedding invitation. Things have changed in the world since people did those kind of things.
I have to say, I’m nervous about being fined for not answering. But I did send it via mail - again. I guess I’ll have to be harrassed for a while. I also feel that I am within my rights to keep my anonymity (as much as I can), my privacy and my securtiy from a field rep who lives in my community - especially one who has seen my house, some of my cars, and my family! Why not just tell me I have to be strip searched in my driveway in the name of patriotism!
I researched this, somewhat, and found that there have been inquiries made by a congressman regarding the right of the Census Bureau to ask the questions, and their right to demand answers.
The whole thing looked orchestrated to me. The congress voted on this change in CB rights. I think that it violates our Bill of Rights. I also agree that I don’t think it will stand up in Federal Court. But what happens, in this new presidency, where the CB is reporting directly to the President of the United States, if they decide to start issuing fines?
If they choose to issue fines of $100 for each unanswered question, one might have up to $50,000 in fines liened on their house. The whole thing is so scary.
I do not have instructions that say I only have to answer certian questions, as I’ve seen mentioned above. If anyone has that booklet, please find a way to post it for me.
Thank you.
Lin,
There is no booklet about the questions. The CB would like as many answers as possible. Some questions are more important than others. You don’t have to answer any of the questions. You don’t have to fill out the survey inspite of the “manditory”. The field agents are told to tell people to only give answers they feel comfortable giving to get the person giving answers and by doing so, will start to give answers to additional questions. The methods used by these sneeky people are listed in various papers and books published for the data users. Noone has been fined since 1960 for failing to answer the census, doing so would cause a court challenge and the CB doesn’t want that.
Dear fellow freedom from the ACB intrusion fighters,
Honored to comment, and do forgive me for not writing and stating all this last years stuff sooner as this website was an awesome help to me (Lazarus’ knowledge and CB-fight was encouraging for me to read, then adapt) through the CB trials.
So this is what happened to me. May it be a help to you, ’cause there’s more (i.e., 2010 Census) no doubt to counting crows come.
- 7/23/08: Received small information card in the mail informing me of ACS booklet to arrive.
- 7/30/08: Received 1st ACS booklet. Did not fill it out and did not return it.
- 8/2/08: Received another small information card telling me that the UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE ECONOMICS AND STATISTICS ADMINISTRATION U.S. CENSUS BUREAU (and can you “feel” the intimidation coming?) hadn’t received that ACS booklet back from me.
- 8/22/08: Received a 2nd ACS booklet survey. Did the same, did not fill out and did not return it.
- 9/3/08 (here comes the start of the phone calls…although back 2008-THEN I was “landline”…today’s 2009-homelife, only cell): 1st CB phone call (from MD and not my home state). Did not answer.
- 9/6/08: 2nd CB phone call (from MD again). This time I answered and told the person in no uncertain word terms on the other end that they could just forget about me filling that survey thing out.
- 9/11/08 (”9/11″…get it, Nine/Eleven?…apparently the person on the other harassing phone end didn’t or else they would have had a tad more federal government sensitivity of what occurred on this tragic day in USA life to NOT have called till 9/12): 3rd CB call (from AZ of all desert places). Did not answer.
- 9/13/08 4th CB call (from the NASCAR-land where Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Ryan Newman are from, IN): Answered and before this person could say a hello-CB-greeting-word, I told him to stop calling my home then slammed down a nice hang up nothing but UNC championship net.
- 10/7/08 (oh boy mom, the first CB-visit!): Unlike the other out-of-state CB calls, this person was based out of my home state. I had my, “NO TRESPASSING” and “BEWARE OF DOG” clearly-readable in my front yard, along with my handy Canon Rebel XTi camera greeting ready in the palm of my hand. This CB person TRESPASSED onto my property anyway (at the start when she walked up to my porch and I told her that she was “TRESPASSING”, she had the cute little arrogance of telling me that I “didn’t own the air”). Now because I did my TRESPASSING homework some weeks earlier (I called my local police department and they told me if ANYONE…and most ESPECIALLY, a “Federal Government Employee” TRESPASSES on my property when I had NO TRESPASSING signs posted, that all I had to do was call the magistrates office to swear out a complaint for their arrest, and they’d send the Sheriff right on over), I told this TRESPASSING CB worker that if SHE or any OTHERS after her ever come back onto my place of dwelling and TRESPASS again, that I’d have her and/or them arrested. All the while I was taking pictures of her and her car until she backed out of my driveway and drove herself very quickly away.
BREAKING NEWS…NO MORE CALLS OR VISITS transpired after that get out of my life CB day.
That is…until several days ago (but then again folks, it’s a NEW YEAR ain’t it?). Van drives up to my house with 2 people in it (I thought they were lost and needed some “home-address” help). They said they were from the CB (she flashed her dangling card at me from her draping chest) and said they were a bit “confused” as to the addresses on the mailboxes. Something to the effect that the mailbox addresses weren’t lining up with the houses. Huh? Anyway, next thing out of her mouth is that she wanted to know what my home address was. I told her that my home address was none of her damn business and added for them to get the heck (”heck”…um, well it had a little more force and Jim Rome Is Burning full than that) off my property or else I’d have them both arrested for TRESPASSING. I then finished up with; “And if you or anybody else from the CB harass me again down the 2010-census-line, I’ll have you and/or them arrested for TRESPASSING.”
Hopefully this future intrusive census case is now closed, but somehow I think tomorrow’s another coming intrusive day doubt it. A-sham (and an Obama-change?-shame) ain’t it? Well, good luck to ya (and me), and God speed.
This survey & the tactics employed to achieve it is an OUTRAGE!!
No one else has mentioned receiving a FedEx letter threatening the $1,000 fine if non-compliance continued (we have not complied and won’t); we got our official notice the day after filing our income tax and attending a tea party locally. Now, how would you feel if threatened and bullied like this?
What makes the ACS so sinister is that no one else I’ve spoken with has ever heard of this survey; under the current political circumstances, people are freaking out! And rightly so!
“What makes the ACS so sinister is that no one else I’ve spoken with has ever heard of this survey.”
Agreed Terese! Till it happened to me last year (and it seems as though they are gearing up for it again this year with the “what’s your address” surprise-surprise recent visit), no one at my place of employment (recently retired as of Halloween 2008), nor almost-entire neighborhood ever heard of the thing or them either!
One little take a legal stand “Standing” matter thing I’d like to peace-of-mind pass on to you/all (and I read this little “Standing” narrative thing from a blog somewhere some time the summer of 2008-ago, and then wrote it down, as it gave me multitudes of peace-of-mind then and future now) is and it went word for word like this:
“Can’t find any record of anyone being prosecuted or fined for failure to reply to the ACS. It would take a Federal Court to strike this thing down, and the Census Bureau is apparently not going to take the risk of giving citizens “Standing” to dispute it on constitutional grounds by serving papers on them. That is the only way a citizen or group of citizens could bring a constitutionality issue. The Census has to act first (and do something more than just threaten) and that gives citizens “Standing” to bring up the issues the Census does not want to have reviewed by a Federal Judge. The Census can hold off a Federal court challenge as long as they want by refraining from actually prosecuting someone.”
So there you go STAND tall! Got the BEWARE OF DOG and NO TRESPASSING SIGN discreetly up in the yard, as that should take care of things while I’m out of the ACS country shortly for a 10 day surfing warm water Nicaraguan spell. Well, good luck to ya (and me), and God speed.
terese,
The ACS used to be the census longform. During the 2000 census, there was so much public outrage over the questions on that form that the CB decided to create the ACS. This way they could operate more under the radar of public knowledge. Not everyone gets the fedex nasty gram. I didn’t get it because my address was incorrect on the original survey.
Noone has been fined inspite of the threats. You are under no obligation to comply with the CB’s demands.
I got the Community Survey a couple of weeks ago and the follow-up letter yesterday. I have read the blogs you have received and agree that the questions are invasive and unnecessary. I intend to not return anything and will wait to see what follows (if anything.) I will write again if I receive any kind of harassment and will get numbers and/or names and pictures and will write from the Pen if I’m arrested ): Thanks for all your info.
Many Thanks for posting this blog and all of the comments. Yes, I just got this ridiculous piece of crap in the mail and like many of you feel as though the questions are waaaaaayyy to invasive. Clearly, it’s a blatant violation of the 4th amendment. Beyond that, it’s very very fishy. As if our federal government hasn’t become intrusive enough! I’m not sending it in. The line is drawn. I’ll post what happens as well.
Awesome to hear Sam Du and B.B.! And thanks for the 4th amendment course B.B.
Interestingly speaking violation enough, recently read in my little hometown newspaper that:
“In March 2010, households will receive letters notifying people in advance the census is coming. Census questionnaires will be sent out nationwide April 1, 2010.”
An interestingly enough “Fools” day wouldn’t one unleash to say?
Also seeing worthy news stations sayings (and that from ONLY one FOX TV NEWS source, with no other rival competitor(s) in plain distant Jane’s fighting ships insight sight)…that unlike my last CB ACS summer of 2008 see above encounter-love, I’ve recently seen FOX-them fairly balance out in spoken teleprompter written word the absurdity and downright inquisition VIOLATION of it ACS all. Awesome to see this may be gaining notable violation wheels USA-wide so hopefully one could somehow, someday think (even albeit way up wistfully high in the 35,000 ft or above clouds) that one fine USA day this entire invasion of paper privacy could come to a screeching close-out wave halt.
Other in the wise… my Beware Of Dog/Private Property/No Trespassing signs are up even if it is early in the 3:10 to ACS fools game train, as is the Canon Rebel XTi ready for whom the next up to trespassing bat tolls. Peace (one would ascribe to assume).
Okay, I’ve talked to many folks who I know are very sharp on the Constitution and I have done much of my own research. We are only supposed to fill in our name and how many people live at the residence and perhaps your birthday and that’s it. I did get the survey a second time today (three weeks after the first one was sent). So, that’s pretty much what I’m gonna do since it is in the Constitution (art I, sec 2) explaining the whole population/districting thingamaging.
All those other questions are clearly erroneous. They say it’s there to help them figure out where to put schools, hospitals and so on and that’s just b.s. Since when do these LOCAL concerns/issues become the domain of the Feds. I suppose you could say this is also an infringement on the 10th amendment as well as the 4th!
So, anyway, as I said before I’m sending it in and I’m only giving them my name, birthday and #of people in the apartment….1. I’ll try to keep ya all posted even if nothing more happens which I hope is what transpires!
The constitution only requires a head count. You do not have to give your names, DOB or anything else. You won’t be fined for failing to return the census.
Hi, My ninety year old mother got her survey about 4 weeks ago. I find this survey puts her in danger. She lives alone. Just that in itself leaves her at risk. she has received a few phone calls, and 2 post cards. This is crazy……
Just got done FOX NEWS watching Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) say how she is going to refuse filling out anything but the number of persons in her house (I wouldn’t do even do that much, but hey, it’s a big time person-with-authority start! ;-)) on the ACS form.
And another recent D.C. in nature article about how she feels and sees it for your viewing start-an-ACS-revolution pleasure here:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/17/exclusive-minn-lawmaker-fears-census-abuse/
With the latest 9.5% U.S. Unemployment Rate hot off the 26 year high figure wire press, just heard that percentage number included 49,000 (give or take a census few) Census Bureau “temps” hired by the fed gov in April-May, only to be that “let-go” in June. Making room for a “private” and how many rooms are in your Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now research and ACS development entity? Happy up and coming 4th and beyond to all.
There’s NO need to answer any questions during the upcoming CB bombardment. Everything they need to know about us is all ready on record - and the Inintials of the Federal Agency holding this info? The one and only, Internal Revenue Service! You all know them: The ones who’ll nail you to the wall, if you don’t file your personal and financial info by APRIL 15 [historically traditional date] each year.
This info was recently garnered from a Law Enforcement friend: The CB volunteers WILL get a GPS reading of your house while standing on your porch! Hmmm, sounds like Big Brother Operationing, to me.
It’s your property. DON’T let them in your house. Ask them to leave. They can cross-reference the street address with records at the County, State and Federal levels. Life’s too short….
We received 3 surveys in the mail and then a visit. Guy with laptop. I answered how many people and even yes, we own the home. Said I would answer no more questions. He gave me the usual “it’s important for federal funding” shpiel. I said no. He left. The NEXT DAY I get a letter saying “I understand you do not want to participate in the ACS survey.” I DID participate! But I didn’t give them EVERYTHING they wanted to know. Letter said “a member of our staff will contact you again in a few days.”
Thank you for posting this. I have felt so harassed by my own gov’t. Now I know I”m not alone. My neighbors and friends had never heard of ACS.
IF they come again, I will not answer door.
Way to go Mad Cat Momma!!!
One little “however” friendly for your information note though (IMHO that is)…and that is, since you opened and left the door open to “speak” kindly with with them so-to-speak, I do believe they will be back again and again and probably again until they hunt (and/or get) more information out of you. That is why from the get-go when they visited me last summer, I took a more pro-active approach to set them straight from the git-and-go.
If you haven’t read it yet…please see my #74 and #76 post above. The NO TRESPASSING and BEWARE OF DOG signs really do give you an MIGHT IS RIGHT edge, because from the here-we-git-and-go-again, it makes it perfectly clear that if they TRESPASS, that they (NOT YOU) will suffer the consequences of their TRESPASSING actions with a simple phone call to the 911-local-law (my Sheriff’s department said that NO MATTER WHO IT IS/WAS…if there is a NO TRESPASSING sign in the front of your house, the idiots TRESPASSING are bound by it and will get good and arrested for it should I call)! And excerpt then from my #74 post:
“I had my, “NO TRESPASSING” and “BEWARE OF DOG” clearly-readable in my front yard, along with my handy Canon Rebel XTi camera greeting ready in the palm of my hand. This CB person TRESPASSED onto my property anyway (at the start when she walked up to my porch and I told her that she was “TRESPASSING”, she had the cute little arrogance of telling me that I “didn’t own the air”). Now because I did my TRESPASSING homework some weeks earlier (I called my local police department and they told me if ANYONE…and most ESPECIALLY, a “Federal Government Employee” TRESPASSES on my property when I had NO TRESPASSING signs posted, that all I had to do was call the magistrates office to swear out a complaint for their arrest, and they’d send the Sheriff right on over), I told this TRESPASSING CB worker that if SHE or any OTHERS after her ever come back onto my place of dwelling and TRESPASS again, that I’d have her and/or them arrested. All the while I was taking pictures of her and her car until she backed out of my driveway and drove herself very quickly away. BREAKING NEWS…NO MORE CALLS OR VISITS transpired after that get out of my life CB day.”
Mad Momma Cat…and I even told the person that I was going to post my pics on the net to show the entire globe what an injustice this was (and I did). That shook her up good, as she must have passed the word on to her office, because she nor anybody else ever came back again. I’m not naive though…and I know there’s gonna be a full court press come next year with the census, so I’m shining up the signs and have the Canon (camera ;-)) all ready to take some perty pictures.
Mad Momma Cat…go on the offensive with NO TRESPASSING signs and BEWARE OF DOG wonders. When they trespass next time (and you can bet they will be back based on your gracious and kind USA citizen efforts to get rid of them)…ask them which part of the letters on the signs that they don’t understand. Then threaten THEM with the law should they be back. If they come back…don’t hesitate, call the cops and let the cops put the fear of God and THE LAW into THEM!
Hope this helps. It helps to keep the faith in what YOU BELIEVE IN TO BE TRUE too.
Read (if you haven’t) all Breaking News about it:
“The U.S. Census Bureau on Friday dropped Acorn as a partner for the 2010 Census after two separate hidden-camera videos captured four employees of the community organization giving tax advice on running a brothel to a man posing as an aspiring politician and a woman posing as his girlfriend and a prostitute.”
Gee, thought our guv-with-all-that-luv knew what they were doing when they did what they did (see post #85 please regurgitating the likes of ACORN…thank you)?
Otherwise…thank goodness for little hidden technology one’s. Too bad however that the average Joe and Mary are left to their own beware of dog/no trespassing/verbal no-you-ain’t passion signs to fight the good slime-ball ACS fight.
Still though…nice to know that the one’s that DO ARRIVE in 2010 “may” not be so politically oriented motivated ACORN rabid. I somehow doubt it.
Enjoy,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125271412822705239.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
This is our horror story with the U.S. Census Bureau! We received the American Community Survey months ago, which we read and decided it couldn’t be real because of the invasive questions on the 28 page survey. Shockingly, I found online that it was real, and it was in our lap to be answered or be fined up to $5000.
To condense a long story to the most important details, our harassment has continued for 3 months now. After a slow start, in which we were sent a postcard and a second survey, we began to get calls from 3 different numbers, all of which were the U.S. Census Bureau. We refused to answer any of the calls or return the inquires left on our home’s answering machine. Eventually a local woman began calling on her own home phone and leaving messages. She started visiting our home - we never answered the door. She left brochures etc, and sealed envelopes. We left them at the door and garage where she had put them. She started visiting us at different times of the day and week. Some weeks she would pick up everything she had left, and a day later, bring them back.
She has talked to 2 neighbors, asking all kinds of questions about us, wanting to know where we were, what kind of cars we drove, etc. One neighbor wouldn’t tell her anything. She would ring the door bell for long periods of time. It was REAL hard not to open the door and let her have it. But, in my online research, we learned it was best if we didn’t. One day she rang the doorbell off and one for about 20 minutes, another day for 7 minutes. She knows we are here and it infuriates her that we don’t come to the door. Then we got a FedEx letter delivered, and we wouldn’t answer the door, then got another one a few days later. You may find this hard to believe, but she left a message on our machine, when the answering machine was turned off, very, very scary. They play games with people, and probably laugh at what they know about us and what they can do to intimidate us.
So this is where our story stands after months of phone calls and harassment. We have called several police stations, not one officer has heard of the ACS, not even an attorney that we have contacted. We have wrote letters to both our senators, with no answers. We feel more than harassed, we feel like citizens of another country. So far, the best advice I have read online is that no one can make us answer the phone, open our mail, or read the literature they leave — or even accept a FedEx letter. Can’t find evidence that anyone has been fined. But now we wonder, will our taxes be audited next year, and the next. Will we receive an ACS every year, and go through this again and again. God save us all!!!
Joycee,
You’ll be fine. It’s been 2 years since I received and ignored the ACS and I haven’t heard a peep from them. I did get a postal survey which I ignored as well.
Yes, I filled out the stupid survey. Some questions I listed as unavailable, cause I did not have the info at my fingertips. I’m moving tomorrow to another town. I probably should have left the survey alone, but then again, I get a grim chuckle, when I realize that any info they get will be out of date for that house. On another note if Americans would stop wanting goodies from the feds, they would not have to fill out these stupid things. Here’s an idea: let’s keep our tax money in our local communities, where we know each other and our needs. The feds need only do one thing: protect us from the bad guys.
I had this form last winter and felt afraid of the consequences so filled it in. I am a Legal Permanent Resident of British birth who is married to an American, and considered this to be a violation of my basic human rights. I just can’t afford the fines, or risk having my family broken up through deportation or similar by simply failing to comply.
However since having found this site, I think my approach might have been different. I am of the opinion that anyone who got this is under scrutiny for some reason. I’d go so far as to say that I suspect the stated reasons behind the survey are bullshit. Reading the replies from the CBers on this page, is ludicrous, as if they’d be told or even comprehend what the purpose of the survey was, or the complexity that the information can be extrapolated in all kinds of ad-hoc reports.
In my case I believe I received this simply because I am foreign born, despite the fact that I am white, Christian and from a stable Western nation, ie. clearly not a Muslim or from an unstable country. I hate to say this, and I mean no offence to Patriotic Americans, but I feel the US government has gone beyond paranoid. If I am under suspicion then clearly they are wasting their time and your tax-dollar. I am a law abiding citizen.
Forget the bullshit in the form and what it says, and seriously ask yourself why you might have got this? Get my drift?
“Anything that happens enough times to irritate you will happen at least once more.”
~ Tom Parkins Continuum
Compelling real-life words Joycee. 2010 full court tsunami press is coming fast Cathy. Excellent tax money idea Joycee. I get your drift USImmigrant, but the GPS unit has us all ( http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5590541 ) in it’s door-to-door question air sights.
Otherwise…Happy October 1st 2009 evening (here anyway) to all.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/216590/page/1
I have also received one of these surveys, and -so far- I have not filled it out. I’m uncomfortable with giving out this sort of information.
I did not read through all the comments, so I am not sure if this was discussed; however, I have read recent news accounts that the Census failed to do background checks on many workers and therefore employed people with criminal records. I do not want to give out information about my children walking to school and our annual income and what time our home will be empty to a potential child molester or burglar. I don’t want to give detailed descriptions of my home and our plumbing and our expenses to strangers. And I think it is wrong that our government can compel me to give such information, especially when the government cannot guarantee this information will be secure.
BRING IT ON!! HAHAHAHHA We got our first survey about a month ago, after a postcard announcement. Then a letter, saying they haven’t heard from us and now today our second survey! At first I had been tempted to fill it out stating that 20 Vietnamese live in the house. No, giving blatantly false info would be hazardous. So “MUM” has been our MO. DON’T PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THE U.S. CORPORATION AKA PHONY GOVERNMENT IS DOING A DETAILED INVENTORY OF THEIR POSSESSIONS AKA CHATTLE? YUP! YES SIR-EE!
Don’t let all this annoy you. HAVE SOME FUN! Now is time for amusement. Answer the phone if they call. Act senile. Really! Don’t answer any of their questions. When they ask for “so & so”, ask them their name. Then say, “Dave?” “Dave who?” Then they keep asking for you, perhaps and say in a quivering voice, “But he/she never told me about a Dave Smith.” And they keep hampering you, and you say meekly, “But I don’t know who you are.” And if they still don’t give up, say, “Oh, are you calling about the funeral?”Take that and run with it!
PS for first post. I can’t wait to get my first visit. I may step out my door, face twisted with my arms twisting around. Talking slow with difficultly, I’ll say, “You want to see my kitties?” They will speak sternly wanting answers and I will rub my face saying, “No, I no sposed to talk to strangers.” And then I may break down into some gibberish. To be politically correct hear, I won’t use possibly offensive descriptions but get my drift that I may have stepped out of a group home. They will find that talking to me is a total waste of their time.
If they happened to catch me in a more lucid moment or if they happen to force their way into my home, I will offer them a seat on my sofa and then run to the bathroom and stay there FOREVER. Make noise like you’re throwing up or something. I do get frequent migraines where I can’t function and I could play that up and stall they for so long on the sofa that they finally leaving. Or start moaning and crying, saying your cat or dog died–act insane but no threat to them. ACT AND HAVE A BLAST! Be a religious fanatic of one sort or another and obsess with the person about their salvation or talk about being healed. Never answer their questions but obsessively ask them personal questions–not aggressive at all but soooo annoyingly and wasting their time they will run from you. HAVE NO PRIDE AND ACT UP A STORM AND HAVE A BLAST!!!
I got the stupid ACS, so here’s how things went: As stated many times above, one survey came, then another. After refusing to send it we had 3 visits. The first 2 happened when no one was home. The Census gal left a note and her card on my door and vehicle. The first 2 visits were on a Sunday. So the third Sunday I was home, and prepared. I set up a video camera to record the event. Lucky for me my son had stopped by in his security guard uniform. When I answered the door I told her she was being recorded. The combination of video camera and unformed operator was impressive, she could not squeak out a single word. I told her there was no way I was ever going to fill the thing out, I felt the questions were too intrusive. I never saw her again.
Then I got one phone call, I told this new gal the same thing. Never another call. No fines, not in jail, smiling broadly.
Steve in Colorado…AWESOME!!!
The canon camera (or in your ACS case, video camera), and one very territorial Alaskan Malamute with a no trespassing and beware of dog sign (or your in your ACS case, one very sharp son in his sharp security guard uniform) once again does the just shut up and leave trick every annoying visit ACS time.
Your actions illustrate the hope for liberty and the pursuit of “privacy” happiness for all…in an otherwise BS “Change” time.
We just got ours !!! This is not right - they will use this information to gather us up…just do more research.
How is it that you can never hit the lottery but you can jackpot on the ACS? Grrrrrr! Received my “congrats” you have been selected card a few weeks ago and ran it thru the shredder. Next came the survey and did the same with it. I just got my 2nd card with my “DANGER WILL ROBINSON!” warning, answer or else, and the 2nd survey soon followed. I did not, nor do I still want to answer the thing! I finally have decided to give give only husband and age, wife and age as my response and await the onslaught of harrassment that will come! The notion that my answers to this survey (interrogation) will help decide the building of schools and roads and provide funds for my community is BS! Let my community decide what it needs. To sum it up…..man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains!
Bingo,
Why do you want to fill in the numbers and ages? This isn’t a census. The constitutionally mandated census will come again in 2010. That will be when you need to fill in numbers and ages. If you start this process, they will continue to pursue it (you). I just received my 2nd survey as well and am now awaiting the calls and then the visits. I’ll just say no and tell them I am waiting for the 2010 census, which I will fill out and return. There is no way they need numbers twice in one year. They don’t really want that, they want your answers to the other questions…
So Paul, what you are saying is that I’m only obligated filling out the one-every-10-year census short one ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census ) vice the ACS long one ( http://en.wikipedia.org /wiki/American_Community_Survey ).
Others welcome (Cathy, etc.) to comment, for I do believe I have been sorta confused with the harassing census difference. Let’s see, I’ll make it very simple for me:
1. Looking back at my previous posts (74,76,80,84,85,88,89,94) you’ll note how I ACS census feel.
2. Paul puts a new, “Well SURE, I’ll be glad to fill out that constitutionally mandated 10 question and not just a “head count” ( http://2010.census.gov/2010census/how/interactive-form.php )
census when April 2010 rolls around!”
3. Right?
From my research, I have found all sorts of things about the CB questions. Questions, in addition to the mandated enumeration question, have been asked since the first census. Questions come and questions go. I could actually write enough about the questions to fill a blog. The ACS was created after the backlash from the 2000 longform worried the CB enough to fear that citizens would boycott the census. A lawyer wrote a flimsy letter stating that the ACS would be covered under the census statutes because questions have been historically asked. Many of the questions are are from government program applications. All of these program mandates have been lumped together to form a rather tangled web of survey designed to grow the gov. Believe it or not, the name question is not required. It is listed under “administrative” questions. And yes, the CB uses info from survey to survey as a check on the accuracy of the census numbers. It also releases the data to marketing groups which target high income people with long commutes to sell audio books, for example. Then there are the various social, behavioral and economic scientists whose very existence is linked to the collection of this data. The CB actually created these areas of study because there needed to be a reason to have full time, year round employees instead of a bunch of part time employees, so the congress was convinced that this data collection was necessary. Members use the info today to pander to their voters. Any wonder why none are listening to us now about anything? As long as they can get money from the wealthy and can get the stupid to fall for their lies, the rest of us can take a long walk off a short pier! The bottom line is that I will give the CB nothing; no name, age, dob, race or tenure. In fact I haven’t decided yet if I will boycott the census altogether. Since our elected officials, who swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution have completely ignored it instead, what should cause the rest of us to obey? My state doesn’t need all the members of congress that it has.
In a nut shell: the ACS is NOT the same as the 10 yr census. The 90 day harassment cycle is for the ACS. Anyone not answering the 10 year census will have a rep visit to confirm the existence of the residence and determine if it is occupied. Much of that work was done with the whole GPS maping, which has already been done.
The 2010 census will consist of ONLY the short form questions, while the ACS will continue to be sent to every month to those 250,000 or so lucky residents during 2010. I’m sure they will enjoy having both. Happy new Year from the CB.
Something to file under “your tax dollars at work”: the current omnibus bill contains money to fund the CB’s 2010 operating budget of 7.324.7 BILLION! 259 mil for salaries and expenses 214.6 mil for the non periodic census programs and the remaining 6.851.1 BILLION for the 2010 census and the ACS. There’s lots to trim from this budget! I’d start with dumping ALL government surveys.
Cathy…an AWESOME, no make that, EXCELLENT explanation!
Thank you for your concise and informative ACS/CB history lesson!
I appreciate your wisdom and brave ACS/CB against-stance during these chopping-away-at-liberty times. I printed up your last 2 posts and will memorize them verbatim when I need ‘em.
You’ve fully answered my “questions” ;-)…and for that, I do believe it’ll be easier to do battle with the intrusive draconian gov-dragon many more ACS/CB forms/visits and USA years to come.
Happy New Year to you and yours ~
Wow. Not having received an ACS survey, but having recently accessed it to check out changes in poverty rates in recent years, I’m amazed by all of this. I would not want to fill out an intrusive survey and send it out to the govt. I would definitely be annoyed if my govt then pestered me for info by coming to my house. Repeatedly. Seems like folks here have some good strategies for avoiding the whole thing, but I can attest to some uses of the data that are not nefarious.
This is not to say that data couldn’t be misused, fall into the wrong hands or be shared with agencies that you wouldn’t want to have it. But in the end when stupid decisions are made based on a lack of data, it’s kind of hard to complain about it. Luckily bad decisions due to lack of data is only some small percentage of the stupid decisions that our govt normally makes. Nasty evil decisions against the populace, probably the Japanese internment camps are the example that mostly covers what most of us should be worried about. I doubt too many people who receive the ACS are really worth monitoring for security purposes (sorry). The true danger would be turning this info over to corporations who would really go to town on you. So like it’s been said, just do the 10 year short form and put down the same info for the ACS (if you receive it) and nothing more.
Good luck!
John
Sorry. Not buying it. Yes there are benefits to the info, BUT…collecting the info should be VOLUNTARY. Instead the title 13 and title 18 statutes are being used to threaten and extort private info from citizens. The CB knows this, however the CB needed to improve response rates. Just a reminder that these titles do not replace constitutional protection.
Our current economic crisis was created by using the CB data. Congress decided that more people needed to own homes and presto, loans were given to people who could not afford them. The reason why we have a health insurance problems are again government created. Insurance became tied to jobs because FDR had a wage cap. Then the government decided that health insurance companies could not sell policies across state lines, followed by various state legislatures deciding what policies in their state had to include. No free market here. The hypocrisy here is that the gov uses the commerce laws to control everything except prevents insurance companies from doing the same thing. Stupid decisions have already been made based upon this data.
The survey is not about security concerns but invasion of privacy. The ACS is a screening survey for discovering individuals who qualify for government programs. They target the elderly, large families and various other profiles for future surveys.
I have read countless stupid newspaper articles and journal publications using the info. Poverty has been over studied in this country without reducing it one bit.
I won’t tell others what questions to answer. We’re all adults here and can make our own choices. I prefer to offer options for people and to describe what I have done or will do. There is a technique to get people to answer questions that they don’t want to answer. It starts by asking questions that they don’t mind answering and then trick them into answering more questions than they want to. I decided not to confront any of the field reps for 2 reasons; first. I didn’t want them recording anything about me (race, gender, age) and 2nd, it was more fun to watch them on using my cameras.
I am an American, part of the human race. The choices I have made as to how I have spent my money on a house or not, who may or not live with with me, my mental or physical health are none of the government’s business and not fodder for any social, behavioral or economic scientist to study.
The information you need to tell the Census to take a hike with is printed on the form for the American Community Survey. I received a copy in November 2009. On the bottom of the back cover, they have printed: (direct quote here)
Respondents are not required to respond to any information collection unless it displays a valid approval number from the Office of Management and Budget. This 8-digit number appears in the bottom right on the front cover of this form.
Form ACS-1
Front cover, right bottom corner says: OMB no. 0607-0810
Right, so you’ve got part of what you need. Now it’s time to go to:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/rewrite/library/OMBINV.USDA.COMMERCE.html
Look up that 8-digit number and you will find the authorization to collect information with this edition of the American Community Survey has an expiration date: 05/31/2008
There you go. Next time any of those guys comes to your address, make sure you look up the legalese and then push i ton them before telling them not to come back.
Tyler, it appears from this web site: http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/PRAOMBHistory?ombControlNumber=0607-0810#, that the new expiration date for form 0607-0810 is 7/31/2010? It looks as if they’ve extended it?
I just got interested in this topic after getting a message on my answering machine at home from the regional CB office saying they wanted to arrange for a room to be used to train Census workers. Very strange until I realized they must have dialed a wrong number. But they wanted to train a couple dozen workers for my small town alone.
If you look at the Census Bureau website, they pay decently and are hiring hundreds of thousands of workers. Are the repeated manipulations, garbage searches, and pressure tactics what we should be spending money on right now? As for attempts to gain entry to the home, the CB website clearly states census takers should NEVER attempt to enter a home. Does the ACS operate under different rules?
I am not against government make-work programs during hard times, but there are so many needed and appreciated things our tax dollars could be spent on instead. It is sickening to think of the misdirection of resources in this. It does smack of big government/big business collusion. Otherwise, the approach would be more respectful and conservative of resources.